Canada-China Relations Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Okay. Thank you for that answer.

I have just a final point on the issue of climate change and co-operation. I think the People's Republic of China is not co-operating with us on climate change; they're challenging us on climate change. That's the seed that they're using on climate change. The fact is that Chinese coal production has been surging in the last year to all-time highs. In this quarter alone, China grew coal production by more than the entirety of Shell's global energy production. That came from the global CEO of Shell yesterday, who said publicly that China grew coal production by more than the entirety of Shell's global energy production in this quarter alone.

I don't see how China's climate change approach comes anywhere near co-operation, and I think it's a huge challenge to the plan. They're burning more and more fossil fuels. They're on track to burning record amounts of fossil fuels. They are the world's largest emitter. I don't see this as co-operation. I see this as a challenge not just to other governments who are making efforts to reduce emissions but to the very health of the planet.

Mr. Chair, I just want to finish on that. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you, Mr. Chong.

Now we'll go to Mr. Cormier for five minutes.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm very happy to sit on this committee for the first time. Even if I have a very small Chinese community in my riding of Acadie—Bathurst, I certainly know the importance of human rights, and I will always be a strong defender of those rights.

That being said, I'll ask my questions in English and French.

You talked about the four Cs—challenge, co-operation, competence and coexistence—and I want to talk more about the commercial relationship that we have with China.

Can you just give us an update on where we are, for example, on the exportation of some of our products such as pork, beef and canola? For example, in my riding of Acadie—Bathurst and throughout Atlantic Canada and eastern Quebec, China is a very important market for the exportation of our seafood, as you know. Can you give us an update on where we stand now in terms of our commercial relationship with China?

[Paul Thoppil]

Thank you, Chair. I'm going to ask my colleague Dr. Forsyth to respond.

[Doug Forsyth, Director General, Market Access and Chief Negotiator, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

As the questioner rightly pointed out, there are a few areas of importance. Canadian exports have importance to the Chinese marketplace, and we have had some challenges with those exports over the last little while.

I'll start with canola and the banning of two Canadian companies, which happened a couple of years ago, following, as was earlier referenced, the case of the two Michaels. I'm very pleased to report that, on May 18 of this year, China indicated to Canada that they would reinstate the two companies that were suspended from exporting canola seed. Now, all Canadian canola producers are eligible to export to China. We had challenged China's decision at the WTO, and we have put that challenge on pause while we see the market results over the next year.

With respect to beef and pork, China is an important market—especially on the pork side, but we were exporting a lot of beef as well. Between 2020 and 2021, China suspended 10 Canadian meat establishments—eight pork and two beef—due to previous COVID cases in those establishments. China also did this to other exporters and like-minded trading partners. Earlier this summer, we received news that China Customs reinstated the eligibility of two of the Canadian pork establishments that were previously suspended due to COVID.

We continue to advocate with Chinese officials for the reinstatement of all Canadian establishments as soon as possible, and we have provided documentation to China Customs to support their reinstatement.

We continue to work multilaterally with like-minded countries that are experiencing similar issues, and we continue to raise concerns about China's COVID measures at the WTO GS committee, the WTO goods council, requesting that China provide scientific evidence to justify their measures.

Finally, with respect to fish and seafood, as part of China's decrees 248 and 249, which came into force on January 1, all foreign food establishments or vessels involved in the production, processing or storage of food product exported to China must be registered in China Customs' online database, China import food enterprise registration system. That must happen by January 1, 2023.

CFIA and AAFC have been working with Canadian fish and seafood exporters to meet this deadline. It does not look like it will be possible to meet that deadline, so late last month, our embassy in Beijing delivered a letter to China Customs requesting an extension of the registration process for Canadian fish and seafood establishments by one year, to December 31, 2023.

It's happening to other countries as well.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

I probably don't have too much time left.

This is very important, especially the seafood sector, as you know, in Atlantic Canada.

The value of Canadian lobster exports reached $3.2 billion in 2021, $454 million of which was to China, so I think we need to protect that market, even if our diplomatic relations are sometimes difficult. We have to keep these markets open, since they have benefited the fishers in our regions and all other sectors of our economy.

Thank you for this overview of the state of our trade relations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

We're going now to the third round. Each group will have an opportunity.

I have Mr. Hallan down for the Conservatives.

You are ready, sir, for five minutes.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a quick question, Mr. Thoppil.

Do you think what's happening to the Uighur population in China is genocide?

[Paul Thoppil]

Canada is a committed multilateral country, and we uphold the agencies of the UN, in terms of the work they do.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Just give us a quick yes or no. Do you think what's happening to them is a genocide?

[Paul Thoppil]

I think what has happened to the Uighur population in China is a travesty, and we take very seriously the Xinjiang report from the UN agency. We are working with allies at the UN Human Rights Council, as well as in our bilateral communications with China, communicating our high degree of concern on this issue.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

That seems like a long way to say no.

Moving on, my question is for DND. In another committee, we found out, through an ex-CSIS agent, that there are currently elected officials in Canada, from all three levels of government, that are either working with or for foreign actors.

To your knowledge, are any of those foreign actors from the People's Republic of China?

[BGen Éric Laforest]

I have no information to that effect. Actually, I don't have any background on this question at all.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thank you.

My next line of questioning is going to be for IRCC. Following up on some of the questions Mr. Bergeron had at the beginning, we know VFS Global has given out its contract to a third party in Beijing. We know the government has finally said it will ban Huawei. We knew back in 2021 that Huawei routers were being used in those visa processing centres.

To your knowledge, are Huawei routers still being used right now?

[Jean-Marc Gionet]

Unfortunately, I don't have that information at my disposal.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Can we get that information submitted to the committee, please?

[Jean-Marc Gionet]

Yes.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

With that company that VFS Global is contracting out to, what kinds of steps or how can you assure Canadians that the people who are applying there aren't being rejected because the regime has all the information?

How do we know, first of all, that the information is protected? They have to legally submit all of the information. Second of all, how do we know that people who are pro-democracy aren't getting rejected on the basis of that same concern?

[Jean-Marc Gionet]

On the topic of privacy protection, all the information that's gathered at the visa application centre is transmitted directly to Canada, and it's a one-way process. It operates similar to our client facing web page. There's no immigration data that is retained at the VACs. The information is stored here in Canada.

As I mentioned earlier, we closely monitor the activities of the visa application centres to ensure that the standards continue to be met. There is oversight in place.

Again, to reassure the committee, the VACs are expressly forbidden from providing any advice, and all the decision-making is done by IRCC officers. That's an important distinction. As I mentioned earlier, the government performed due diligence to ensure the vetting of the contractor, in this case, through the contract.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

We know the regime in China is putting pressure on Uighurs and other Turkic-speaking Muslims who are not only just inside of China but also waiting in third countries. China is pressuring them to be deported and sent back.

One concern is that the processing time right now under IRCC is atrocious in some cases. We've never seen backlogs as high as these in Canada's history. It is putting more pressure, especially on refugees and other asylum seekers wishing to get into Canada.

To your knowledge, what is the processing time right now for those people who are waiting in third countries?

[Jean-Marc Gionet]

Unfortunately, I don't have the processing times at my fingertips for the resettled refugees, but we can certainly provide you with that information.

On that particular topic, IRCC does have mechanisms in place. If there are cases where persons in need of protection need expedited processing, because there is an imminent threat to life, safety and security, we do have our urgent protection program, which we operate with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you, sir, and thank you, Mr. Hallan.

We'll now go to Mr. Oliphant for five minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you to all the officials for coming here.

I'm going to do two very different topics. First, the allegations about potentially illegal activity by either Chinese delegates or the Chinese government are certainly concerning to all of us. I have read the reports. I read the op-ed in The Globe and Mail that Charles Burton wrote. I read it in the Toronto Sun, the National Post, the New York Post and its sibling organization Fox News. Those are the outlets that seem to have covered this. It seems to be coming from one group, Safeguard Defenders, which I've never heard of.

I'm wondering whether we have had intelligence from other groups, besides Safeguard Defenders, to date coming in, or if that is the investigation that needs to be done.

[Weldon Epp]

Thanks for the question. I think I can be brief.

Part of the challenge is that, to date, that's the only source we're aware of, so it's important for us to understand and corroborate if that source is accurate.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Okay. I think our committee would want to hear, if it is possible, about a Canadian investigation by authorities. That is going on, as you have said. Thank you for doing that work.

I'm switching to a completely different topic, and it is slightly outside the China direct area.

We know about the security issues in the Taiwan Strait. We also know about some security issues between China and India, but I would like to focus on North Korea as a regional player and the nuclear tests that have been going on, which are contrary to all of civilization's understanding of what should be happening, and most recently, in terms of threats, at least the perception of threats, to Japanese citizens as nuclear tests were going on over their heads.

Do you have any comments about the regional security? This may need to go to DND or to Global Affairs. What are we looking at in terms of regional security in that part of the world related to our Chinese relationship?