Evidence of meeting #3 for Canada-China Relations in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was taiwan.
A video is available from Parliament.
Director Emeritus, China Institute, University of Alberta, As an Individual
Ms. Calverley, you have up to five minutes for your statement.
Aileen Calverley Co-founder and Trustee, Hong Kong Watch
Thank you, Mr. Chair
Thank you, members, for the opportunity to testify before this committee.
Far too often, the relationship between Canada and the PRC is framed through the narrow lens of trade and business. The public is told that China is too much of an economic opportunity for us to risk alienating the Chinese government by raising human rights, yet Canadian trade with China in 2021 accounted for just over 4.6% of our total exports.
Similarly, what is often ignored in this debate is that much of the goods we export to China are the raw materials that its economy relies on. For example, even at the height of its trade war with Australia, the PRC continues to import substantial amounts of iron ore it cannot source elsewhere. This reflects the limited ability of the PRC to put countries with export-led economies in what it calls the “economic freezer”.
Hong Kong Watch’s ESG report—our new research—shows that the passive investment strategies pursued by both the leading Canadian federal and provincial pension funds, as well as university endowment funds, have failed to properly factor in human rights considerations when investing in portfolios for our Canadian pensions. The holding of emerging market funds includes Chinese companies linked to forced labour. I hope this is an area that this committee can investigate further in a separate inquiry.
Canada continues to have a special interest in the human rights situation in Hong Kong, not least because of the 300,000 Canadians who have made Hong Kong their home and the 500,000 Hong Kong Canadians who continue to worry about the safety of their families and friends. The human rights situation in Hong Kong has been deteriorating rapidly since the introduction of the national security law in 2020. Beijing continues its crackdown on the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong.
The 90-year-old Cardinal Joseph Zen, along with five other trustees, including Canadian Denise Ho of the 612 Humanitarian Relief Fund, stood trial a week ago. Forty-seven pro-democracy Hong Kongers are charged under the national security law simply because they joined a primary election. Five speech therapists who published a children's book series called the “Sheep Village” were recently convicted of sedition.
With the situation on the ground continuing to deteriorate by the day, Hong Kongers are looking for a way out of the city, not only to preserve their own safety and security but to seek a better future for their families. The Hong Kong pathway open work permit scheme announced by Canada two years ago is a start, but there are many gaps that need to be addressed.
For example, the five-year restriction poses a barrier to many Hong Kongers, even for recent graduates who meet the requirement at the time of application. By the time their work permit is received and the hours of work requirement is fulfilled, they might already have fallen out of eligibility to apply for permanent residency under stream B of the scheme.
Canada has set the immigration target of over 400,000 immigrants per year in the coming few years. Expanding and extending the Hong Kong pathway can help meet this target. The founder of the pro-democracy newspaper Apple Daily, Jimmy Lai, is in custody. His arrest and detention is the evidence of the CCP's crackdown on press freedom in the city. According to the Hong Kong Journalists Association, the press freedom index is at a record low. The Hong Kong government is also now looking to enact a “fake news” law, under which the government can be empowered to issue a decree for false information to be removed.
Many frontline human rights defenders—such as journalists, pro-democracy activists, lawmakers and medical professionals—are currently not covered by Canada's open work permit scheme. We recommend that the government create a human rights defender category to address this gap, similar to the current policy for Ukraine.
Even Hong Kongers who are able to immigrate to Canada are not free from the far-reaching hand of the CCP regime. Chinese police are setting up offices in Canada where dissidents continue to be harassed and intimidated by agents acting on behalf of the CCP. The threat is not faced by Hong Kongers alone, but also by Uighurs, Tibetans and Chinese dissidents alike. The CCP's United Front overseas department has one of the most sophisticated foreign interference operations in Canada, which is discussed at length in China Unbound by Joanna Chiu and in Hidden Hand by Clive Hamilton.
This operation is not only designed to keep Chinese citizens, Hong Kongers, Tibetans and other activists under close supervision and, in some instances, used to target and intimidate them, but it also is used to actively interfere in Canadian politics.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken Hardie
Ms. Calverley, I think we'll call time now because we need to get into our questions. However, if you have further points to make, perhaps you can work them into some of the answers that you provide.
Director Emeritus, China Institute, University of Alberta, As an Individual
Thank you very much.
Director Emeritus, China Institute, University of Alberta, As an Individual
Ms. Dancho, you have six minutes.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being with us and providing excellent testimony.
I have a few questions for Professor Houlden.
I appreciated very much the way that you laid out your opening remarks. It was great to understand. Having listened to a lot of opening remarks, I really appreciated how well you did that, so thank you.
Director Emeritus, China Institute, University of Alberta, As an Individual
Thank you.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
I want to get your expert opinion on a few of the agreements that Canada has not been invited to the table as an ally or as part of several alliances that have been undertaken in recent years in the Indo-Pacific, notably, the trilateral security pact between the U.S., U.K. and Australia, commonly known as AUKUS. Can you comment on whether Canada should be pursuing a seat at the table there?
Director Emeritus, China Institute, University of Alberta, As an Individual
I'm in favour of Canada being a joiner. We're a member of more international organizations than almost any other state. However, there is a problem that emerges with Asia-Pacific, with the Pacific in general and even with the Indo-Pacific. With all due respect for our military, for which I have the highest respect—I went to our national defence college at one point—our Pacific forces are extremely modest. We lack even the legs or the means to get our ships readily to Asia without the help of our southern neighbour. A number of our ships are getting older. Our air force is not new. We're a minor player. I think that, as long as that remains true, it's hard for us to be taken as seriously or to be an active member of those organizations.
When it comes to trade, there are more substantive links. We have, obviously, huge people-to-people links because Asia is the number one source of our immigration, etc. The AUKUS arrangement between the U.K., Australia and the United States has a particular focus on defence equipment, which I don't think Canada seems ready to acquire. When you think about our submarines, we went that route once, but it was never finished. I'm a bit skeptical it would happen.
However, I do believe that we should be at more tables in Asia. We shouldn't assume, though, that it's simply a question of asking. Our attention to that region has been episodic. It's alive for a while, and then it dies off. The question will be, in Asian capitals—in my view—whether we are going to show up on a regular basis and whether we can be counted on. If we can generate a sustained effort to be an active part of that region despite the distances, that's a great thing.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
I'm wondering if you can comment as well on the quadrilateral security dialogue. Should we be pursuing a membership here?
Director Emeritus, China Institute, University of Alberta, As an Individual
I would say yes. Members are going to ask what we have to bring to the table. I would argue that it is now too modest in terms of the military presence, the political clout and the apparent long-term commitment of governments—plural—in the past. I think this is not something that could be done tomorrow. That right will have to be earned and not simply, “Can we join? Thank you very much.” This is something that might be a longer-term goal, but I think it has to be presaged by that investment—military, political and economic—in the relationships with Asia. Then that fruit might fall into our lap.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
It sounds like Canada has a lot of work to do to be invited and welcomed to the table in these key security alliances.
What would be the impacts to Canada long term if we just allowed the status quo, our presence as it is now, to continue? Can you explain in layman's terms why you think it's important? It sounds like you think it's very important. Can you explain that to the committee?
Director Emeritus, China Institute, University of Alberta, As an Individual
I think it will just bump along where we're at. In other words, if you want to know what will happen if we don't do anything dramatic or significant or substantive, it will be like it has been. My warning here is that, historically, when the security situation in Asia has gone very badly wrong, when it has gone south.... I'm thinking of 1941, when the troops in Hong Kong were overwhelmed. I'm thinking of the Korean War, when all of a sudden within months we were fighting with desperation in the Korean peninsula. One could even say that 9/11 catapulted, with almost no warning, into a west Asia conflict.
We are a small player and probably always will be, but if we don't pay close attention and we don't have some substantive contribution to make in terms of hardware, attention and political effort, we'll find ourselves just dragged willy-nilly into situations where we'll be severely impacted and have little warning and little opportunity to shape the response.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
I think about the response we had to the two Michaels and the various agricultural issues we've faced with our trade. It's been talked about at this committee quite significantly how much Canada depends on China for trade, and likely vice versa. I feel that because we're not part of these alliances, we're not being invited to the table and we're not investing in the resources you've outlined, Canada is at risk of being pushed around by bigger players, particularly China, when they want to do something. For example, we recently heard reports that they have set up three satellite police stations in the Toronto area.
Does not having a presence and not taking this perhaps as seriously as we should not impact our options of how we respond to, for example, these satellite police stations that are reportedly in Toronto?
Director Emeritus, China Institute, University of Alberta, As an Individual
It's a very complex question, and I appreciate it.
I'm in my 36th year of full-time work on China. In my experience, when it comes to political interference, to espionage if you wish, or to just unwarranted interference, it's a bit like crabgrass: You pull it up but it grows back. The idea that you're going to take one step and it'll be gone is not realistic. I think it takes vigilance.
You're quite right, in my view, that a higher-profile presence in Asia will help, but as I said in my remarks, I think close attention to China itself and having a dialogue with them, being able to speak to senior officials.... I know every Canadian ambassador. I've met every Chinese ambassador to Canada since we established relations in 1970, some of those when I was still just a student. I know that we've had these problems, but some of them have been to go in to speak to the ministers of public security or state security and say, “Look, this is unacceptable. If you do this, we will do that.”
That kind of dialogue is not—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken Hardie
Professor Houlden, I'm sorry I'll have to intervene. We're quite over time.
Director Emeritus, China Institute, University of Alberta, As an Individual
Of course. Thank you.
Director Emeritus, China Institute, University of Alberta, As an Individual
Now we go to Ms. Yip for six minutes.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
That was a nice surprise.
I want to thank the witnesses for coming at this very late hour to be part of this committee meeting.
My first question is to Mr. Houlden and Ms. Ong.
In your opening statement, Mr. Houlden, you mentioned “Stringent COVID restrictions...have...prevented a resurgence of business visitors”. Can you comment further on that? What is the economic impact?
Director Emeritus, China Institute, University of Alberta, As an Individual
We have a very large cohort of Canadians of Chinese heritage. They would normally, and do, start up businesses. They often have or come to Canada with trade contacts, but it's not just those. The officers of not just Asian private companies, but CEOs and CFOs of large Canadian companies would normally be filling those business seats in aircraft between Shanghai and Vancouver, between Toronto and Hong Kong, etc.
Much of the trade is on autopilot and can be done remotely, as I am speaking today virtually, but particularly when it comes to investment, particularly when it comes to a company deciding that they're going to spend a lot of money developing the Chinese market for their products, there is nothing that substitutes for face to face. With COVID restrictions, which are still in place—hopefully for 2023 it will be in a different place—it's a bit like the shoe that didn't drop. You don't know what you've missed if it hasn't happened.
The trade has been maintained more or less on a stable basis, but we can't know what might have happened if we could have had a more normal exchange of business people in both directions. You can't quantify that. I am confident, though, that there are deals that have been missed and that there are exports that could have taken place that did not because of the COVID restrictions, which have also slowed the Chinese economy as well.