Canada-China Relations Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses for being with us today. We are very grateful to them for being here so that we can get an update on the situation since this special committee last met.

Mr. Linder, during the committee's previous work, we took part in a meeting that caused us particular concern. We heard from representatives and leaders of the Canadian intelligence community, and we learned that in many countries, including China, the Department of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship deals with a subcontractor, VFS Global, to collect biometric data. That company is part owned by a Chinese investment fund, and on top of that has ties to the police, specifically in Beijing.

It was particularly concerning to learn that no one in the Government of Canada seems to have done the slightest vetting regarding what use that company makes of the biometric data of people applying for one or another kind of visa.

Since that meeting, which was concerning, to say the least, there has been an election, of course, and a long interlude before the special committee was reconstituted. I simply want to know whether, since that time, the Department of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship has taken any steps to satisfy itself as to the integrity, if I can put it that way, with which the biometric data collected by that company is used, so we can be assured that it is not falling into the hands of the Chinese authorities, who might then use it to pressure or harass people, for example.

[Paul Thoppil]

Mr. Chair, I will turn that over to Glen Linder at IRCC.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Mr. Linder, you've been asked to respond.

[Jean-Marc Gionet, Director General, Immigration Program Guidance, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Bergeron.

In the case of VFS Global, the Government of Canada has done its due diligence by vetting the contractor when the contract was awarded for services to collect biometric data provided by visa application centres. Public Services and Procurement Canada’s Contract Security Program, in partnership with IRCC, consulted the main security agencies to determine what measures were required. Their advice was taken into account in the evaluation and guided the choice of risk mitigation strategies to be considered in launching the network.

You asked what has been done since the last session. I know that in 2021, there was vetting done in this regard, and more is planned. We have also put in place warnings for clients who attend at VFS Global centres to inform them of the terms on which they submit information and the applicable laws.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I understand from your answer that vetting was done to be sure that this company uses data appropriately and securely, Mr. Gionet.

[Jean-Marc Gionet]

The Government of Canada requires all employees of visa application centres who have access to personal information, including subcontractors' employees, to undergo security screening equivalent to a reliability check done in Canada.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you for your answer. That is certainly a question we will want to come back to.

We saw that the visit by the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives to Taiwan in early August provoked a reaction from the People's Republic of China that was both disproportionate and disturbing, even though it is not unusual for foreign parliamentarians, particularly Americans, to travel to Taiwan.

My question is for the Global Affairs Canada representatives. How do we explain this sudden hardening of the attitude of the People's Republic of China in reaction to the visit by foreign parliamentarians to Taiwan, particularly with respect to the visit that Canadian parliamentarians are planning in a few days? Are we expecting a reaction from the People's Republic of China to that visit, and have discussions with the Chinese been undertaken in this regard?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

We are out of time for Mr. Bergeron's segment, but Mr. Thoppil, would you like to offer a quick answer?

[Paul Thoppil]

The quick response is that we have engaged with the Chinese ambassador here. With regard to that discussion underlining the very point you indicated, it is very normal. We have a long history of parliamentarians going to that island.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you, sir.

We now have Ms. McPherson for six minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all of the witnesses for being here today and providing this testimony.

Like many of my colleagues, I'm deeply concerned about the report we have heard from The Globe and Mail on the police stations that are located in Canada. However, I don't think any of us, to be honest, are surprised. We have heard for a long time about people being intimidated and threatened in this country.

I question what Canadians are meant to do about that. I know that my colleague MP Yip asked the question about how they contact Global Affairs. I worked in the international development sector for a very long time, and I don't know how to contact Global Affairs.

Realistically, is that a legitimate thing to say to Canadian citizens, that if you are challenged, contact Global Affairs? There is no one for them to contact. What would you advise people when they are in that situation?

[Weldon Epp]

Thank you for the question.

I want to reiterate, if I might, how troubling we find the growth in reports that we are regularly receiving.

I want to just corroborate what you're saying. To give one example, Canada, through Global Affairs, has throughout my career in this department annually held consultations with human rights, NGOs and community leaders. It's really only in the last couple of years that the balance of conversations at those annual consultations has shifted to talking about how intimidated they feel within Canada and the growing risk, even within Canada, of raising the concerns that they do. We take it very seriously.

It's a fair point. I don't have an operational answer to your specific question, insofar as Global Affairs Canada is not domestically the first responder for this particular type of incident. There's work being led by Public Safety to address the specific question you've raised, and there are a lot of discussions about how to shorten the distance between individual Canadians experiencing this and knowing how to deal with it. It's very important.

I want to emphasize that the operational lead still has to be the police. It's not sufficient, but it's the first step.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Okay. We know that Canadians are meant to go to the police. Has Global Affairs provided information to local police services? Is there training for police on the ground so that they can actually respond to this? At this point, it looks like Canadians are responsible for contacting Global Affairs and the police.

The police have no interaction with Global Affairs. It seems that what you're asking people who are being threatened to do is relatively useless, to be fair.

[Weldon Epp]

Again, the lead on this in terms of training, capacity building, and information and intelligence sharing is through the RCMP with local police forces. However, Global Affairs Canada works very closely with the RCMP, CSIS, other intelligence parties around town and Public Safety to make sure that our assessment...which is that these are the types of practices, the way in which interference is carried out and the vectors for it, that we see around the world through our work. We provide those assessments and share that information such that the police forces and police services are better equipped to know how to address these issues.

In terms of their specific operational training, I'm sorry. It goes beyond my expertise to say how the police services will onboard that information and translate it into practical training.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Epp.

Will our new ambassador to China be raising this issue with our counterparts?

[Weldon Epp]

Absolutely.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Okay. Thank you.

I have some questions for Mr. Linder.

Mr. Linder, you talked a bit about those who have applied for the different schemes for Hong Kongers to come to Canada. You talked about the 17,000 who have applied and the 8,000 who have applied. I would like to know how many have been successful with their applications. Where are those applications? Have they been processed?

[Glen Linder]

We can look into providing that information to you. I can say that we are prioritizing applications through this stream. I can also say that the acceptance rate for applications in this stream is relatively high.

I'll turn to my colleague, Mr. Gionet, who may have this at his fingertips, if that's acceptable, Mr. Chair.

[Jean-Marc Gionet]

I do have some stats as of June 30, 2022.

Out of the applications received on the temporary resident side, the work permits, there have been 14,054 processed, of which 12,477 have been approved. On the permanent resident side of things for those measures, 1,851 individuals have applied, as Mr. Linder indicated, and 1,119 have been granted permanent residence.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Knowing the urgency of this, these need to be prioritized. I would urge the government to do that.

There are some other challenges that I have with how Hong Kongers are being processed, I guess.

One thing that we know is that Hong Kongers are often given a criminal record for protesting for democracy in their own country. It's not illegal to protest for democracy in Canada—thank goodness—but, if they say that they have a criminal record, all of a sudden they become ineligible or they are bumped off the list. How is IRCC dealing with this particular concern?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Again, just give a quick answer please. Ms. McPherson's time is up.

[Glen Linder]

In brief, in order to be inadmissible to Canada, the alleged crime has to be both a crime in the country where it occurred and in Canada. Peaceful protest is not a crime in Canada, so if someone is accused of peaceful protest in China, even if that's a crime in China, that person would not necessarily be inadmissible to Canada.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Necessarily....

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you for that answer.

Now we go to our second round. We have Ms. Dancho for five minutes.