Canadian Heritage Committee on March 14th, 2007

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First, I am truly sorry that you were invited just before lunch time. I don't think it was intentional on the part of committee staff. We are tired and unfortunately we are meeting with you just before lunch, when you are the ones whose culture and language are the most threatened here.

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I think I can ask of you to do everything possible to allow us the time to ask all our questions and to give these individuals all the time they require to answer—even if that involves putting off our lunch—because they are the most affected by this. I know that you are a good person and that you will do this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I don't have a problem with that, but I have to put a limit on it so we don't run straight until 1:30.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

No, I know. However, I would like them to have the same amount of time as the other witnesses had. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ladies and gentlemen, I used to be a history teacher. You remind me very much of what I used to teach my 4th year high school students when I taught them about assimilation.

Mr. Houle, yours may be the only brief that is different from the others. You said earlier that you are in downtown Vancouver. Perhaps that is why your experience is not the same, but I do feel your complaints about Radio-Canada are rather timid.

However, Mr. Beaulieu, your brief was one of the first I read, because you sent it in advance. I underlined things, I devoured it and this morning, I feel some cynicism regarding your experience with Radio-Canada.

I am not familiar with your report, because we did not get it ahead of time, but my first question will be to you.

This morning, when I turned on my television here at the hotel, I looked for Radio-Canada in French, and all I found were cartoon characters. I switched to CBC and I got the news in English. So my impression was that there was an effort being made to make me feel like a child.

Does it make sense that I got cartoon characters on French- language TV, while on the English network they were broadcasting the national and international news? That is my first question. Do you get cartoons in Vancouver between 6 a.m. and 8 a.m.?

[Yseult Friolet]

I do not know how much you have travelled throughout the country, Ms. Bourgeois, but there is no doubt that Radio-Canada or the Broadcasting Act have no control over cable companies. So we do find that in hotels sometimes the French channel is eliminated in favour of the cartoon characters you described. I do not know what program you saw this morning.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

It was cartoons.

[Yseult Friolet]

That is really too bad.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

It was the animated film 101 Dalmatians.

[Yseult Friolet]

Our federation has often spoken out against this practice. Unfortunately, we have no power in this area.

If you have an opportunity to look at the programming schedule while you are here—or perhaps Ms. Fryor Ms. Savoie, who are from the region, could show it to you—you will see that the French channels are being placed higher and higher up on the dial. Now they are around 102, 103 and 104. So that makes things very difficult. People have to be quite well off and have a good cable company in order to have access to French-language stations.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

What you say about cable companies and the programs they present is extremely important. You are the first person who has answered this question when I have tried to ask it.

[Yseult Friolet]

I'm very pleased to hear that, Ms. Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Finally, we must realize, Mr. Beaulieu, that we have a right, a historic right under the Canadian Constitution, to have programming in French and to protect our language. I guess you know that! Since 1763, since the conquest, we have had to be able to seek out Quebeckers and French Canadians as well so that we could be a genuine Canadian people. An attempt was made—at least through legislation—to protect their language. You tell me that Radio-Canada is not doing this. What exactly are you saying? That the French language is not being protected? That assimilation is occurring at a tremendous rate?

[Réjean Beaulieu]

I think the Charter of Rights was a great idea at the time. It will not be a source of information for my children, nor for digital migrants or digital natives; it may be a source of information for interest groups, lawyers and judges. Unfortunately, it must be acknowledged that the Charter is a failure.

I talked about the importance of the media. It is important to recognize that in an evolving world, we need up-to-date media. The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is probably doing something comparable to what it was doing 10 or 20 years ago, with the exception of regional content, which is poor, as has been mentioned. This really is unacceptable. We are losing all our dynamic people to more competitive media.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

That brings me to my final question.

I devoured the brief and scribbled notes on it as I went along, and as I said earlier, I felt that the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation was trying to control things: that this Crown corporation wanted to keep a tight grip on all forms of broadcasting.

In your brief, you seem to be saying that a number of people don't actually want to become competitors but rather helpers, or supporters, of the linguistic communities, and that they have not been able to do so because CBC controls news broadcasting.

Is that correct? Have I understood your point?

[Réjean Beaulieu]

The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has not kept up with the times. I have to say that, once again.

I often use the very sobering analogy of the Pravda, the soviet regime's propaganda organization. This comparison might hurt a bit, however sometimes, there is a slant that CBC adopts outside Quebec, and there are some places about which no reference is made.

What's more, proponents of this message make sure that only good things are talked about, so everything is hunky dory. Unfortunately, to really engage people, you have to talk about things that they care about.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

And yet, you said:

The approach where you have a broadcaster and its program director who want to keep a stranglehold over the content and participation is outdated.

That sort of thing must go on, because you referred to it in your brief. Do you have any examples?

[Réjean Beaulieu]

There's one point I didn't express well at all in my presentation and it's probably the most important one: the public broadcasting organization is having a lot of trouble getting the dynamic content that is expected. They must realize that they need to promote programs with more hard-hitting content, content that has an edge, as you say in English.

I remind you that the French may not always be the best. I know that in Quebec alternative media is being discussed at great length. And so, CBC needs to acknowledge that medium.

The point that I'm trying to make with this brief is that the party line is set, and we're not going to start encouraging people to click on links sending them to websites over whose content and editorial slant we have no control.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, that's clear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Madame Savoie.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to thank you for your presentation.

As a French speaker from the West, the portrait you have painted seems a quite accurate picture of the situation that I myself experienced. I went to the West coast about 30 years ago and I took advantage of French Radio-Canada's success which helped me develop and continue to live in French. So, I benefited from CBC's good work in our community. The budget cutbacks which began around 1995, when the Liberal government was in power, really affected our public broadcaster. And now, the current Conservative government is trying to undermine the Internet's neutrality. So, we're concerned about our culture from this point of view.

You suggested instituting an accountability framework. You did a good job of stressing how important regional programming is. I have noticed on several occasions how irritated francophones outside Quebec are when they hear reports about what is happening with the Mont-Orford Park. They're irritated because they don't hear about what is going on locally, and about parks in their region; they hear about the temperature in the Saguenay but not about the temperature in Vancouver. You talked about developing a standard-based accountability framework.

Could you be more specific about what these qualitative and quantitative standards would be, and how they would improve things?

[Yseult Friolet]

We would both like to answer that question, Ms. Savoie. I'll respond first and then I'll ask Ms. Sotteau to talk about the quantitative and qualitative side of things.

Now, section 41 of the Official Languages Act sets out the terms of reference. Section 41 is a little more substantial than it was before the new legislation came into effect. Section 41 states that departments and agencies, such as CBC/Radio-Canada, must contribute to enhancing the vitality of francophone communities, not only within Quebec, but also in francophone communities outside Quebec, as you pointed out.

We've seen the effects caused by attrition since the 1990s. So, we would like to see a change. The Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, which you've perhaps heard from or will be hearing from shortly, advocated the development of an accountability framework. We agree entirely with the federation on this point. Such a framework may improve the situation or enable us to make choices which better reflect the community here, where we live, and help others, including Quebeckers, get to know us better.

You gave the example, Ms. Savoie, of news broadcasts about the Mont-Orford Park. Something very important happened in Vancouver last fall, it had to do with water. Based on the most recent statistics, there are three major cities in Canada: Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal. On our television news they talked about the water problems we were experiencing. I would hardly be exaggerating when I say that the news reached French speakers just a tad later, and appeared as just a regular news item.

Now, that's not an editorial comment, but I do know what Canadians want when they "channel surf", as digital migrants, to use Mr. Beaulieu's expression looking for as much news as possible, which is what most viewers do. As francophones, we certainly have Radio-Canada. And I think that the accountability framework may be helpful in this regard.

I'm sorry, I thought I had introduced Ms. Sotteau earlier. She works with us at the federation and she may be able to say a little more about quality.

[Christine Sotteau, Government Relations Coordinator, Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique]

It's a suggestion, as Ms. Friolet said, that every francophone community outside Quebec has made. Basically, it's a way of holding the CBC to account.

Yseult talked about the Official Languages Act, but we're also dealing with a Crown corporation and, of course, the Broadcasting Act. So we think this would help CBC, the community and the CRTC to consider best practices. For example, what's the best way of reflecting the francophone community's reality, and of working on a strategy to reflect this reality?

Do we really understand? We can't blame CBC for anything. We realize that the very restrictive budget cutbacks have made things increasingly difficult. For example, using a camera to cover a francophone event is a luxury, when there aren't enough cameras in the newsroom. So journalists just end up automatically covering something that the anglophones have already covered. There are too many reports which are of more interest to the anglophone community because the same camera is being used. We don't have the flexibility to make personal choices which better reflect the francophone community's reality. Being here today to cover your presence in British Columbia is the result of a choice: we're talking about a video camera which is being used for francophones and not for anglophones. Sometimes we'd like to be able to do things differently. But we have no choice, we quite simply cannot. There are all manner of constraints, and I think that the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation needs to think about these issues and make strategic choices. Then it will have to abide by these choices.

Is that okay? I hope I've answered your questions.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Yes you have, absolutely.

Do I have a minute left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I'll give you a very short one, and then I'll make a statement. I'll hold my questions.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Beaulieu, unfortunately, I am not a digital native. So some of your suggestions may have escaped me, but I would like to come back to the whole idea of having a citizen space.

Could you say a bit more about the role CBC could play in all that, and tell us what it would mean?

[Réjean Beaulieu]

French and French content not only have to be promoted within CBC, but also... As you say in English, they need to walk the talk. You need to promote people who are active in French, and I'm not just talking about people at CBC, our official spokespersons or writers for L'Express du Pacifique. We need a broader base, francophones should be called upon to write in French, to meet in French, and this no longer happens.

When I hear the term "accountability framework", it gives me the shivers. Once again you would have francophones switching off because of all the red tape. We already have a regional panel at CBC which hasn't done a thing, and which doesn't broadcast anything on the web. In my opinion, an accountability framework, is all about Web 2.0, and counting the number of hits and being transparent with its viewership. This is the best way of determining whether the public broadcaster is doing a good job. But if the public broadcaster doesn't welcome this feedback and continues to censor it, and if it doesn't have its own ombudsman and transparent and accountable processes, well, then it will be tough.