Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2009

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

Yes, that would be another way of doing things.

The 10% rate represents 2,200 departmental clients, who all benefited from this measure. That represents approximately one quarter of the clients of the department. This has a direct impact, because they will be able to do longer term planning. As you know, many of the department's programs have been renewed for five years. We needed that in order to be able to do multi-year planning ourselves. We need long-term renewals.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

In cases where organizations do not receive the funds in time or have problems because of that, it causes problems for you as well. You have goals in common. When the recipients have problems it undermines the department's goals.

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

Certain circumstances exist. I am thinking of the Music Entrepreneur Component. Based on their cash flow, we give them a certain amount of money at the beginning of the year, that is an advance on the contribution agreement, so that they can manage it. There was even one case where we gave them 90% of the amount that they had been granted. Later on, we analyze each case and provide the necessary compensation.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

When the money is coming in late, are these organizations given notice through a letter or are they contacted in any other way? Perhaps you do so in some cases, but according to my information, you do not.

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

The service standards already mentioned, and that would be in effect as of April 1, 2010, will be extremely transparent. Program managers will know what their status is as far as service standards are concerned. We will be able to follow that. Sometimes the recipients believe that their application is complete and claim that they have sent the application but have heard nothing. Often, the applications are incomplete.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You inform them that it is incomplete.

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

We tell them. We do...

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

We have to move on. Thank you.

Madame Lavallée.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Do you have any statistics on delays for the various grants programs?

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

Some programs have standards. It is an organizational change. For the current year, we did some trials, for some programs, to see how this would work.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Do you have statistics?

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

The statistics we currently have are flawed. I was saying to your colleague that if someone sends in a signed application, but that is 40% to 60% incomplete, it is accounted for and the clock starts ticking. Our service standards will have to define the moment at which we consider the application to be complete. The statistics that are currently in our system... Things will change because we are changing our systems. At this point in time, as soon as someone tables an application, it is recorded in the system whether or not it is complete.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

My colleague Mr. Roger Pomerleau and I travelled around the province of Quebec. We visited every corner of the province. We met with many cultural organizations that complained about the delays in receiving an answer. One organization—I can provide you with the name after the meeting if you wish—even told us the following story: they sent in an application in October 2008 and last spring, they were told that they would receive an answer in September 2009, whereas their event was to take place in August 2009. There is something wrong here, that's not normal.

I have other examples of organizations that received grants but found out about it on the very day of their event. I have names and dates of events. Everything I am telling you is documented. This situation is constantly recurring across the province of Quebec. This often affected the partnership fund but it also affected other grants programs. We are under the impression that that is how Canadian Heritage works. Organizations do not receive an answer in time. There is a certain cavalier attitude that I do not understand. You do not have statistics, which partly explains the situation. We wonder what concrete solutions might be available. We do not know the real reasons.

Is there a lack of staff or of funding? How much time does the minister's office take to sort through the projects? Is it an acceptable length of time? Is it getting longer? Is it possible to shorten it? These are all questions I would like you to answer. What are the real reasons?

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

Yes, I understand.

I was saying that the service standards have not yet been implemented across the board. On the other hand, we have a system that allows us to calculate the timeframes. It is not perfect, because it calculates from the moment the application is received, whether or not it is complete. Our new system will be better.

In the arts and culture sector, the departmental turnaround times are six or six and a half months on average, from the filing of the application until the end. That is the standard. For exceptional cases, I would prefer not—

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

You do not seem to understand that these are not exceptions. We heard the same comments everywhere in Quebec. I was a bit surprised to hear from my colleague Pablo Rodriguez that the situation is the same across Canada. The problem is so significant that the committee decided to study it. The fact is that this is a real problem. There are problems that are not real. Those are on another list. They must be sorted through and classified by priority. This is a glaring problem. Artists and cultural organizations are complaining a lot about this. We must consider the real reasons and find real solutions.

[Jean-Pierre Blais]

I agree with you entirely. The current economic situation results in the organizations being even more vulnerable. That is why we already have an action plan. Whether we are talking about grants or multi-year agreements, the goal is to implement more acceptable service standards.

For the person who is waiting for his or her contribution, answer or cheque, regardless, the time period may seem very long, I agree. As for the example you gave concerning a turnaround of over 12 months, according to our statistics that would happen in only 1% or 2% of cases, and it does happen that the delay is caused by the fact that the application was incomplete. Imagine the case of a cultural space or an infrastructure program. Sometimes these projects require technical soil testing to be carried out or that initial funding be contributed by another level of government. In some cases, the problem is not that we have not finished our work—

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

You are giving me cases that are understandable, but there are other cases.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Your time's up.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

In the case of partnership projects in the art sector, it is not only an issue of soil testing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

I know you can probably get some of those answers, to the many questions that were asked, to Madame Lavallée as we go forward. You might even be able to in the next round.

Mr. Angus, please.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming today. It was an excellent presentation. I'm certainly encouraged by hearing about moving towards multi-year funding, because the issue of certainty is fundamental for any arts presenter.

My concern, though, if we're looking at an action plan, is that we have to find out where the bottlenecks are, and I'm not sure if I had that identified. I've heard a number of times that you say there are applications that weren't complete, maybe 40% or 60% of them. I could see that in a few cases, but when I'm dealing with arts presenters, they're pretty professional and know what they're doing, so I would wonder if that would be the main cause of it.

I'm looking at your grants and contributions management framework, with the legislation, the Federal Accountability Act that has to be checked off, the Financial Administration Act, the Auditor General Act, the whole policy of Treasury Board, risk management. So clearly there are a number of steps.

I don't see the minister's desk. How many projects would the minister review personally? How many of them would be grants and contributions? Does he see every one before it goes out? Is it a percentage? How does that work?

[Pablo Sobrino]

At the Department of Canadian Heritage, the minister of Canadian heritage or the minister of state in particular program areas see every grant contribution other than the two programs that are listed, which are the Canada Day and the athletes assistance program. So all 4,000-plus files go to the minister's office.

At every step in the process, we have due diligence requirements. At the program level, we're looking at issues of eligibility, clarifying the program, whether the applicant has met the eligibility requirements or not, whether they are meeting the program objectives. The program objectives are not necessarily only the ones in a particular region. You have to look across the country.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Okay. So we have 4,000-plus applications that are sitting on the minister's desk, and on any given day, the minister is travelling across Canada making announcements here, there, and everywhere. What obligation is he under to get these out in a timely manner?

When I'm speaking to people who are very close to these files, they say to me, “Everything works and then it gets to the minister's desk and it sits there”.

What steps will you take to make sure he gets them checked and sent out?

[Pablo Sobrino]

The biggest process change that we're bringing in is around risk management. The idea is that right now we have almost 100% review of files to manage risk. So we're looking for documentation--

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Sorry, what “risk” are you...or would the minister look at--political risk?