Canadian Heritage Committee on March 11th, 2009

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Yes, I may take that up with you afterwards. I don't want to waste time on this particular file.

I have one final question, if I have time. The decision on APTN, the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network, is obviously taken in light of the fact that we're going to high definition over the air. Is it strictly that, because you're cutting this particular distribution mechanism?

[Judith LaRocque]

Actually, no. The government, through the northern distribution program, provides right now $2.1 million annually to APTN to ensure that aboriginal programming is distributed to the 90 northern communities.

This is a shift not to digital, but to satellite. So it's going from over the air to satellite.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Okay. So this does not entirely cut funding--

[Judith LaRocque]

No.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

--for APTN? But you're subsidizing the mechanism through satellite television, is that right?

[Judith LaRocque]

The over-the-air component will come to an end March 31, 2010. By then--and I have people behind me who can correct me if I'm wrong--APTN should be fully operational on satellite.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Yes, I see that.

Perhaps I'm going into the political realm once again, because I think this is going to be a huge mistake--a huge mistake--for this particular sector. Anyway....

Do I have some time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

A very, very short one.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Oh, my goodness. Okay.

I want to go back to the Trade Routes question for a final time.

You used the word “nimbleness”. Tell me a program, whether it's through Canada Council, whether it's through something else, that provides the nimbleness you're looking for, if you were to give your advice not to a minister, but to a particular group that wants to take its thing abroad?

[Judith LaRocque]

What I would be telling you is probably more my personal opinion--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Oh, please do.

[Judith LaRocque]

--than advice, necessarily.

That would be a program that was probably able to easily target new markets that could.... People don't necessarily need to have people on the ground to help open doors for them. What they need is help to get over there and open the doors for themselves. But we have expertise in the department. There is also incredible expertise in the various associations, be it the export book publishers association, etc. I would see more tag-team targeted teams that would help, rather than saying we're going to be in London, Paris, Singapore. That way, if a new market evolves or you discover a trade fair that is the latest thing, you don't penalize yourself by the lack of flexibility in your program.

That is what I would have in mind.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Bruinooge, for the last question, please.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for coming today. I really appreciate your testimony.

To follow up a bit on what Mr. Simms was saying, in terms of a nimble program, I'll bet the money the Canada Council invested for the Aboriginal Arts Secretariat.... I'm sure I know a number of the groups that have taken some of that money, especially the carvers in Cape Dorset. I bet their return on investment is higher than anything you've got under your wings.

But I'm going to move on to a couple of questions in relation to the origin of Trade Routes, because looking back to the formation of the program, I think it was roughly in 2001, at the time there was of course the existing program in the Department of Foreign Affairs, PromArt, that was operational not only in Canada but throughout the world.

Was there a degree of consultation between the departments at that time? Or was a demand being expressed by the artists? Can you give some testimony about the origin of the program?

[Judith LaRocque]

Believe it or not, Mr. Bruinooge, I wasn't around in 1968 when they developed the first--

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

I think 2001, sorry, is when--

[Judith LaRocque]

For PromArt, but for Trade Routes, yes.

I think that Trade Routes was conceived to help cultural business, cultural commerce. PromArt was designed to help with touring and artists, per se, artist companies, touring companies. So I think that would be the real difference between the two.

Susan or Pablo, would you like to add anything?

[Pablo Sobrino]

I'll take that.

The Trade Routes program was developed to support market entry in targeted markets. That was the original design of the program, which is why we had people on site in those areas. We provided a small, about $2 million, contribution program to support individual project initiatives in terms of getting people to markets and stuff--those things. That was developed in support of objectives in particular markets, in terms of our cultural industries being able to market their wares abroad.

The PromArt program was very much around providing grants to artists and cultural organizations in support of international touring and organizing cultural events abroad.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Though some of the funds from Trade Routes have been reallocated, as you've already stated in testimony, you have referred to some of the decision-making as being political.

Going back to the genesis of the program, would you suggest that the decisions related to the choices of the five cities in which some of the program is administered--as we know, they are very expensive to operate--were more political decisions, versus decisions of the bureaucracy?

[Judith LaRocque]

They were decisions of the government of the day. They haven't always remained the same. There was at least one shift in city as priorities changed for a previous government, and we were able to make that shift.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

So you're suggesting they were a political decision to some extent.

[Judith LaRocque]

It's not for me to say, honestly.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Okay. Well, I do appreciate your testimony. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you very much.

We thank our witnesses from the ministry for appearing today. Thank you for your answers.

We will recess for about five minutes as we prepare to go in camera for the rest of the afternoon for our committee business.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]