Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 7th, 2010

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

We became subject to ATIP in September 2007. It went from zero to about 500 and some in the first three months. That's when everybody said, “Whoops, we have an issue here.”

We sat down with the commissioner. We organized ourselves in a way where we could actually start working on it, and that's how we got to deal with 1,202 of the 1,260 requests that we've received.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

But the vast majority of them come from one source, you believe?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

That's what I've said.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Does this obstruct you from doing your day-to-day business?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

We believe in transparency. We are going to do what's necessary to answer these requests. Obviously, when you realize that they are coming from the same source and they could be feeding some of the newspapers that perhaps are in the Quebecor media environment, it gives a colour to it. But we have an act. We're going to respect the act. We'll answer the requests if they are within the spirit and the scope of 68.1.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

You're sounding like you believe more likely that they're sort of a publicly sanctioned industrial espionage.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

I'm not going to comment on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Monsieur Lacroix.

Mr. Simms, go ahead.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I won't get into espionage. I'll leave that to your drama department.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

It's actually a very interesting conversation, though, about your accountability, because I can find out if you had a sandwich and a Coke the other night, but you can't find out if I had a sandwich and a Coke the other night. I'll leave it at that.

When it comes to co-productions, I'm a big fan of the production and the work you've done across the country when it comes to these productions. A producer whom you've worked with, Paul Pope, in Newfoundland, is someone I know who has done good work. I've watched The Tudors. It's a co-production as well.

In light of what's happening in the vertical integration world that we are into now, what does it do for you for in terms of investing in productions?

[Kirstine Stewart]

Is that with particular reference to co-productions?

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

No, I'm asking you to be a bit broader than that. I don't have a lot of time, and I apologize for that, but I'm asking about productions in general. The co-productions, yes, but also productions like the ones you did with Paul Pope in some of the productions he did on the east coast.

[Kirstine Stewart]

Yes; and in terms of vertical integration.

It's important to note that the CBC, beyond any other broadcaster, has the highest requirement for Canadian content in prime time. We embrace that, we enjoy it, and we exploit it to its benefit, because Canadians are now watching Canadian television more than ever. So when it comes to productions, either by Mr. Pope or various producers across the country, we find these to be very advantageous and very beneficial partnerships. We partner with the independent production community across the country, and we enjoy the benefits of their talents in the productions they make for us.

So it's important for us, because we believe we've seen an increase over the last four years in Canadians coming to Canadian content. That increase is something that we want to keep going with. It's beneficial to us, it's good for the production community. It means that Canadians are watching and want, and obviously demand, Canadian content more than ever.

In that light, when it's vertical integration and some of these other companies have lesser Canadian content requirements, and are even looking to perhaps lower those Canadian content requirements, we see ourselves as the Canadian voice, the place for diversity of voice, whether through production or news. It's the place where we can actually focus on Canada and content first.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Madam Stewart.

Thank you, Mr. Simms.

Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lacroix, in your report you talk about local broadcasting quite a bit. I think Canadians have concerns about it, as I do in my constituency. I think you know you've operated under a licence in Peterborough with an agreement through Corus with CHEX-TV. There are concerns that CBC programming could be removed from the two Corus stations if an agreement isn't reached.

But I think you would find, in a market like Peterborough, that programming like The National and a lot of your other programming would typically get better ratings than it gets in other markets, where you don't have a local network. It seems that the CBC is recognizing that in this document.

Is this a change in focus for the CBC? It seemed that CBC was kind of withdrawing into big centres and becoming.... I think what makes local news work is that people want to see themselves or see people they know, or to see their community in the news. But in a lot of ways, it seemed that CBC was withdrawing in some of these communities.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Let me make a couple of comments on that, sir.

I came into this job on January 1, 2008. Quickly, quickly after that, with the team I have here, we looked at what the priorities would be. And you heard me say in my first couple of speeches how important the communities were, how important local programming was, and how important the CBC was in terms of the mandate we have with our links to the communities. And I think we've proven that.

I think that with the reorganization of news.... And the local programming improvement fund helped us also, in terms of our being able to stay in some communities. As Sylvain said a few minutes ago, it is a great vehicle and a great initiative. We benefited from that, but we also believed in it, and it was easy for us to match our priorities with these funds in the community.

So you heard me--you heard me in my remarks and in my conclusions--that's it's a priority for the broadcaster, and that's where we're going.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

One program that's remained very strong for the CBC in English Canada has been Hockey Night in Canada. There is a lot of concern out there about it. In fact, there is a lot of talk out there that once this agreement comes to its end, you may not in fact be able to maintain that product with some of the competition that's sure to try to go after it.

Is that a concern at CBC, and if so, do you have a plan for how you would go after that? And is there a CBC post-Hockey Night in Canada?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Mr. Del Mastro.

Please be quick, Mr. Lacroix.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

I'm sure you've put it in the right perspective. It's a different game right now. We have big corporations looking for content. CBC/Radio-Canada realizes and is very proud of what Hockey Night in Canada brings to Canadians, and we're going to look at all sorts of ways to ensure that it stays with us as we go forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much to CBC/Radio-Canada for your testimony. We appreciate your coming before our committee.

We'll suspend for a couple of minutes to allow our next panel of witnesses to appear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We're coming out of a suspension of our 35th meeting of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, this December 7, 2010.

We are here this afternoon, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), for a study of the impacts of private television ownership changes and the move towards new viewing platforms.

We have before us today four groups. They are the Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists, represented by Madam Downey and Madam Deer; the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada, represented by Mr. Murdoch and Madam Auer; the Canadian Media Guild, represented by Monsieur Laurin and Madam Wirsig; and the Writers Guild of Canada, represented by Madam Parker and Madam Ashton.

Welcome to you all.

We'll begin with an opening statement from ACTRA.

[Ferne Downey, National President, Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members.

My name is Ferne Downey. I'm a professional actor and the national president of ACTRA. With me today is Joanne Deer, ACTRA's director of public policy and communications.

I'd like to thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak on behalf of our 21,000 professional performers in film, television, sound recordings, and radio and digital media who live and work in every part of our country.

Digital technology has brought Canadian artists a new world of incredible opportunities. Our diverse culture, talented performers, and unique Canadian voices can now be accessed by audiences around the world with the click of a mouse. However, with new opportunities come new challenges, and without adequate support mechanisms Canadian artists risk getting lost in a sea of content from creators around the world.

The fundamentals behind Canada's broadcasters have changed practically overnight. Where once we had an army of broadcasters, now we have been reduced to a mere handful. Vertical integration isn't just a buzzword, it is our new reality.

Four massive private telecommunications companies--Bell, Shaw, Rogers, and Quebecor--now control the majority of Canada's cable, satellite, Internet, and wireless services. As a result, Canadian content is now being controlled by fewer and fewer hands. I know you've already had these companies come before you and tell you how tough it is for them to be in this business. Predictably, they bemoan regulation, but there must be rules to ensure that Canadians have access to diverse voices, independent voices, and most importantly Canadian voices.

We humbly suggest four key fundamentals to make sure Canadian content is not lost: one, effective and enforceable regulation of broadcasting on both conventional and digital platforms; two, maintain Canadian control of our telecommunications corporations; three, increase public and private investment in the production of new Canadian content; and lastly, support independent and local voices.

We do hope the CRTC's new television policy will bring Canadian programming back to our screens when it is implemented this coming spring, particularly the underserved scripted drama and comedy genres. It is a crucial step forward, but by no means is it the end of the journey.

Increasingly, Canadians are turning to their computers, laptops, and mobile devices to watch content. It was an error in judgment for the CRTC to keep its hands-off approach to broadcasting in new media, especially considering how quickly these digital media platforms are starting to mirror their conventional counterparts. CTV's conventional network has to make space for Canadian programming. So why shouldn't their online presence? We understand the issues are different, but to us it makes sense to say that websites like CTV.ca or GlobalTV.ca must present consumers with Canadian options.

The same should hold true for “over-the-top” services like Netflix, Apple TV, and whatever new services that might emerge from the digital jungle. And apparently Shaw now agrees with us on this. Online broadcasters should be regulated.

It's also time that Internet and wireless service providers give back to the system. These companies make a lot of money from hosting broadcast content over their networks. Like their conventional counterparts, ISPs must be made to do their part and contribute to the creation of that content by paying a percentage of their revenues to a production fund.

We're heard the Canada Media Fund say that the revenues from BDUs are declining and will likely continue to do so as more Canadians seek their content online. It is critical that the federal government continue to support the CMF. However, ISPs must also step up and help fill this gap.

Our fear is that vertical integration, combined with weakened or inconsistent foreign ownership rules, will set the table for foreign corporations to come in and snap up our entire communications industry in one fell swoop. If that were to happen, the primary means of producing, promoting,and disseminating Canadian culture will be in the hands of foreign corporate interests.

Some believe that you can sell off telecom without affecting broadcasting. That might be conceivable in some countries, but not in Canada. Here telephone companies own cable, broadcast, and satellite assets and cable companies own telecommunications, satellites, and broadcasters.

Opening up foreign ownership in telecommunications would be disastrous. It would damage Canada's sovereignty over cultural policy and jeopardize Canadian content regulations. Our culture certainly cannot survive, let alone flourish, if decisions about our prime-time TV schedules and online content are being made by executives at NBC Universal in Los Angeles.

I'll now turn the microphone over to Joanne Deer.

[Joanne Deer, Director, Policy and Communications, Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists]

Vertical integration is tipping the scale against independent broadcasters who can't compete for content with the distribution rates promised by broadcasters affiliated with one of the big vertically integrated corporations. It leaves fewer doors for producers to knock on and increases the chances that broadcasters in the same corporate group will share the same programming. Why do we need hundreds of channel if half of them are airing the same programming? We need measures to ensure fair competition and to maintain editorial diversity in our broadcasting system.

Before the most recent rounds of vertical integration, the CRTC took steps with its diversity of voices policy to lay down some ground rules. Now that the commission is trying to oversee these huge, powerful conglomerates, it's acutely obvious that the tools it has to enforce the rules are not very effective. We strongly support chairman von Finckenstein's calls for the CRTC to have the power to impose monetary fines. We all know that money talks.

The CRTC must also take a more aggressive approach to protect diversity in this integrated world. We urge you to direct and empower the commission to ban exclusive content deals. These conglomerates should not be able to lock down content, especially when taxpayers have paid for it. We would also like to see a mandate that vertically integrated companies maintain separate management structures for cable, satellite, broadcasting, and telecommunications operations.

Canadians are looking to you, as our elected representatives, to provide the leadership and vision we will need over the next few years to put the rules in place now to ensure we can seize the opportunities in front of us in this digital and integrated world.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

We'll now have an opening statement from the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada.