Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 29th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You're out of time. Thank you, Mr. Gill.

Mr. Cash, we are now into five-minute rounds.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

What is the total cost of the War of 1812 celebrations?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

It's $26 million.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Twenty-six.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

It's $28 million, sorry.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Maybe you can clear some things up, then, because you were quoted in Le Devoir last December that it was going to cost $70 million, and then the Library of Parliament research in September pegged it at $85 million. What's the discrepancy there?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I can't speak for the Library of Parliament, and I sure don't speak for Le Devoir, but I can tell you that investment by my department is $28 million.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

I'm talking about the total investment in the War of 1812. I understand the figure for your department, but what we're seeing here is that the Government of Canada is spending $85 million. Can you confirm that?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

The $28 million, as my deputy just said to me, is what we're spending. It's the amount of money that my department has for the War of 1812. But, for example, you've seen the ads on television from the Royal Canadian Mint. They have an ad which they do every year. This year they've chosen to do the War of 1812. In previous years they may have done the Grey Cup or the 100th anniversary of the Stampede. I don't speak for the Mint, but the portion of their budget, whatever it is that they've decided to invest into ads, is their budget. You can bring them here to ask them what it is that they're spending on it. But that would raise the number, too. It's about $70 million all told, but those are all with existing budgets, not new budgets.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Okay, so $70 million all told.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, but not from Heritage.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

I understand. It's $70 million. Again, we've got research from the Library of Parliament saying that it's $85 million. Can you clear up where that extra $15 million is?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Look, I don't know. I haven't seen the paper you're talking about and I don't know where they got their research.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

You've spoken quite a lot about your views on the importance of changing the mandate—in our view narrowing the mandate—and changing the name of the Museum of Civilization. You've spoken about how important it is to give a greater sense of Canadian history, but here you've got a budget for one event in the history of Canada on which your government is spending $85 million, and you're investing in Canada's museum and that's $25 million.

You've got three times the investment in one moment in Canadian history as compared to what you're investing in the museum. Doesn't it seem that the priorities are flipped around there?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

If I accepted the way in which you present the facts, yes, but that's not the way it is.

For example, when the Mint—

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

The numbers are the numbers, right? The numbers are there, right? You've got $25 million for the museum, and $85 million for the War of 1812.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

It's not $85 million. It's $70 million, as I described.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Even if it's $70 million, it's still three times the price tag of the museum for one event in Canadian history. It just strikes me that this is a strange sequence of priorities for the Government of Canada.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I wish I had brought with me the letters from two of your colleagues from the Hamilton region who wish we had spent more on the War of 1812.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Listen, I'm not saying that we shouldn't commemorate the War of 1812. I'm talking about the government's priorities when it comes to spending money.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Sure. A full sentence would be great.

The War of 1812 is not one event; it's hundreds of events all across the country. Of the $70 million that we're spending, by the way, a lot of that money is going to be recouped. I mentioned the Royal Canadian Mint. They're going to make money. This gives us a revenue generator, not a cost for the Royal Canadian Mint. You've seen the new Tecumseh ads, and what they've done for Isaac Brock and Laura Secord. They're going to make money and support the Government of Canada's fiscal framework by, at the same time, supporting Canada's history.

I'm pleased that you now seem to be supporting the Canadian museum of history. That's great. The $25 million will go a long way.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

The question is about priorities here. If you're talking about the importance of Canadian history, and you're investing in a museum to the tune of $25 million, and your government is investing three times that amount in one part of Canadian history, does that not seem that the priorities are skewed? I think it would strike Canadians as odd.

That's what I'm talking about. We're not quibbling about the importance of the investments.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

You have a strange way of looking at the numbers.

The $25 million is a one-time investment to refit the Canada Hall and to build the pan-Canadian network that I described. You also forget that the museum has an annual budget of about $57 million on top of that every year to do their mandate.

You say it's $70 million versus $25 million. No, the $70 million is across the government. The commitment from my department is $28 million. The budget for the museum for the coming couple of years is going to be far in excess of what we're going to be spending on the War of 1812. So it's not quite true.

If you add into this the fact that the mandate of the Canadian Museum of Civilization, soon to be the museum of history, also includes the War Museum, and the things they're doing to talk about Canada's history between now and 2017, the investment we're going to have for Canada's 150th birthday and all these events related to our past is going to be very substantial. It's going to be very substantial.

Therefore, it's not skewed and it's not imbalanced. It's quite appropriate. I think your colleagues who have written me asking us to spend more would disagree with you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Cash.

Mr. Hillyer.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

First of all, Minister Moore, do you feel as if you didn't get a chance to address the distortion of those numbers? Do you need any more time on that?