Evidence of meeting #49 for Canadian Heritage in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbc.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
No, please finish your sentence. I interrupted you. Go ahead.
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
Take a run at me, and I'll try to respond.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
No, you're bigger than I am.
I do want to move on to something else, though.
I want to look at some of these expenditures. All these celebrations that you're talking about, all these individual things, do you not find that the costs are starting to run away in certain areas? How much did we allot to the Grey Cup celebration in the beginning?
4 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
For this year it's $5 million, but that was a specific item in the budget.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
With the celebrations that are coming up, do you not find that you can't really peg.... Are you budgeting a certain amount of money for this, and we can't overrun that whatsoever?
4 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
You're talking about for 2017 or for—
4 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
At the beginning of your statement, you talked about these celebrations coming up over the next five years, taking us right up to the 150th celebration.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Do you not think that there will be cost overruns? You're coming in here looking for extra money for this, that, and the other thing. Don't you think some of the costs for all these celebrations will run away?
4 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
No, because we're pretty prudent. The money goes out. We don't give out credit cards for people to run up the costs and then we get the bill. People apply for funding specifically itemizing what it is they're asking for funding. They qualify or they don't. They provide receipts and they get reimbursed. That's the accounting process. We don't just allow people to run up costs and send us a bill. That's not how it works.
As a matter of fact, I would look, for example, at the 400th anniversary of Quebec City. There was a budget for that; it came in under budget, and that money was returned to the treasury. The way in which we have accounted for these things has changed quite a bit over time in a way that I think works well.
4 p.m.
Conservative
November 29th, 2012 / 4 p.m.
Conservative
Parm Gill Conservative Brampton—Springdale, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also want to thank our witnesses for taking the time to be with us today.
Minister, I see there is a small amount in the estimates that is allocated to War of 1812 advertising. Could you please explain to the committee why it is important that Canadians be aware of this very important time in our history?
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
Sure. It's funny. I've heard it said by those who are critics of our investment in the War of 1812 that this is a war that people have forgotten, so why are we spending money on it? The question answers itself, doesn't it? That's the point.
The War of 1812 was one of the most important things that happened pre-Confederation that led to Confederation itself. The War of 1812 defined Canada's territorial boundary with the United States. We were invaded. We repelled the invasion and we endure. Because of the outcome of the War of 1812 aboriginal Canadians had a very different future than did American Indians. Because of the War of 1812, francophone Canadians, and in particular the province of Quebec, have had a much more respectful future than they otherwise would have had, and the French fact in Canada has indeed flourished in ways that otherwise certainly would not have been the case. And, of course, it paved the way for Confederation itself in 1867 with the Quebec and Charlottetown conferences in 1864.
It's a critical moment whereby had the outcome not been what it was, our country frankly wouldn't exist. Therefore, when people say we ought not to celebrate this because it's something that people have forgotten, I think they make the point themselves without knowing it.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Parm Gill Conservative Brampton—Springdale, ON
Also, as members of this committee know, the Canadian Museum for Human Rights is slated to open in 2016. Could you take the opportunity to give the committee an update on the status of that targeted opening date?
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
This is actually a very important issue, particularly for those in Winnepeg, but it does have pan-Canadian consequences because this museum is a really important one.
The Canadian Museum for Human Rights process was started some years ago. It started under the previous Liberal government. Verbal agreements were made by Prime Minister Chrétien. Monetary commitments, and political commitments, for lack of a better word in the right sense, were made by Prime Minister Martin. We said that if we won the election in 2006, our government would honour those commitments and move forward with the museum, and we have done so.
When we decided to support the creation of this museum, it was a $100 million capital investment by the Government of Canada. At the time it was originally $20 million a year to operate it, I think. The money to operate it has now been increased to about $21.7 million, but the $100 million capital to build it has remained the same. The museum has encountered many challenges going forward on the cost of building it.
The original budget to build the building itself was $240 million and it's now $351 million. Many of those costs were, frankly, unforeseen, particularly the cost of steel. There were also some issues with the ground and the weight of the museum and architectural design. There were some challenges. It's one of those things that taxpayers get frustrated about very quickly. Unfortunately, it is what it is, but we have done our best to mitigate the costs. We have come up with a solution to this that maintains the budget of the Government of Canada and our commitment to the museum without putting new costs onto taxpayers.
The $100 million hard cash commitment to build the museum remains what it is. The $21.7 million per year cost to operate the museum remains what it is. What we have done, and this is reflected in the supplementary estimates, is to ensure the museum will open on time as planned, which is at the end of 2014, if memory serves. The original plan to have the museum open when it was planned to open will be maintained.
What we have done is we have taken the $21.7 million in operating costs, an annual cost that is part of the A-base funding of the Government of Canada—so it's simply another national museum with its annual cost—and we have taken its operating costs for the coming few years and we have cut them in half. We've taken the half of operating funding that was going to be in the coming five or six years and lumped it together into one sum and paid it forward, essentially. In the years going forward—the coming five years—its operating cash is going to be cut in half, but then it will spike back up once we get to the year when the advances are all paid.
We thought it was a responsible way to deal with an unforeseen challenge without putting new pressures on Canada's fiscal situation.
The museum will open on time with the mandate that Parliament has given it, with no new cost to taxpayers, and the museum can go forward. Again, this is a museum. It's a pretty remarkable financial success story. About two-thirds of the cost of building the $351-million building are not being borne by the Government of Canada, yet it's a Government of Canada museum. Most of those costs are being borne by the private sector, by those who believe passionately that Canada should have an institution that talks about human rights both at home and abroad. Support has come from the City of Winnepeg, and the Province of Manitoba. Other provinces as well have kicked in money for this. The Friends of the Canadian Museum for Human Rights have done a brilliant job of fundraising and making sure this is a success.
It's an important topic and I thank you for raising it because I know a lot of people, when it comes to the museum, the funding and what's going on, it's a pretty intense debate. In Winnepeg people have a clear understanding of what we've done and why, and it's been well received. The NDP provincial government has been great to work with on this project, as has Winnipeg's mayor and city hall.
I also know this is an issue that all Canadians want to see fixed and remedied to a successful outcome when it opens in two years, and I think we're there.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Parm Gill Conservative Brampton—Springdale, ON
Can you talk about the value of arts and culture in terms of jobs and economic growth?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Parm Gill Conservative Brampton—Springdale, ON
Can you talk about the value of arts and culture in terms of jobs and economic growth?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
I can. I have it memorized, as a matter of fact, and I have it on my quarterback cheatsheet wristband.
I'm glad you gave me the opportunity. We should all remember these numbers: arts and culture represents $46 billion in the Canadian economy and 630,000 jobs in Canada. It's three times the size of Canada's insurance industry, twice the size of Canada's forestry industry. Any government that has a plan for economic growth but doesn't have a strong plan for supporting the arts is a government that doesn't have a plan for economic growth.
