Evidence of meeting #122 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was repatriation.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Dean Oliver  Director, Research, Canadian Museum of History
Travis Gladue  Co-founder, Bigstone Empowerment Society
David Yurdiga  Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC
Chief Morley Googoo  Regional Chief, Nova Scotia/Newfoundland and Labrador, Assembly of First Nations
Sarah Pash  Executive Director, Aanischaaukamikw Cree Cultural Institute
Ruth Phillips  Professor, The Great Lakes Research Alliance for the Study of Aboriginal Arts & Cultures
Anong Migwans Beam  Executive Director, Ojibwe Cultural Foundation, The Great Lakes Research Alliance for the Study of Aboriginal Arts & Cultures
Wayne Long  Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Gordie Hogg Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC

That's one of the reasons you're here, to provide that input and that context for us.

I agree with you. We should have a bit of a preamble that contextualizes this and puts it in a broader framework of all the things that first nations are dealing with over this period of time, related to the historical perspective and how this fits in. This is an integral part of the direction we're going with respect to truth and reconciliation. This fits into that framework more broadly. It is a specific part or a specific component of it contextualized in that fashion.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Dean, keep it to about 15 seconds, if you can.

11:30 a.m.

Director, Research, Canadian Museum of History

Dr. Dean Oliver

An aspect of that would be the notion that repatriation exists on a very broad spectrum of the ways in which museums, cultural institutions and others can contribute to reconciliation. It is one way, and an important one, but only one.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Gordie Hogg Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Thank you.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you.

We will now go to Mr. David Yurdiga, please.

11:30 a.m.

David Yurdiga Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC

Thank you, Madam Chair; and thank you to the witnesses.

Mr. Gladue, thank you for your service for our country. I believe you served in the Canadian Forces. We really appreciate that.

Mr. Oliver, thank you for joining us.

My first question is to Mr. Gladue.

Can you describe the challenges you face in your journey to repatriate a number of artifacts that you discovered in the Royal Alberta Museum?

11:35 a.m.

Co-founder, Bigstone Empowerment Society

Travis Gladue

That's a great question.

As I mentioned, it goes back to 2000, regarding Treaty 7 territory, the Blackfoot Confederacy. They did an excellent job. They were able to get their own legislation with the provincial government.

Currently as it stands for Treaty 8, where Bigstone is, there's nothing. All we can go on is a lone process.

I understand that, but we need to have laws in place there, and also checks and balances to follow. What these look like down the road is the museums working collectively together. It doesn't necessarily have to be with the leaderships, but from the communities, delegated people who want to take on these roles. Really, in my opinion, it has to be a 100% grassroots initiative.

11:35 a.m.

Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC

David Yurdiga

Mr. Gladue, in your first meeting with the museum, was there any push-back? Was there willingness, like “Yes, let's do something, and we'll talk?” How was that first meeting?

11:35 a.m.

Co-founder, Bigstone Empowerment Society

Travis Gladue

It was great. Actually, they were very welcoming. Walking in there, I was green. I'll be honest. However, they were very helpful and informative. They educated me on the proper care of these artifacts, pertaining to lighting, to heat, to cold, where they would have to be stored, based on temperature, and the history of all these items.

We worked together. They educated me and I educated them too on the history of the people who made these items, because it goes back to our ancestors and it helped provide that insight to them as well. It was a very positive experience with the director and with staff from the Royal Alberta Museum.

11:35 a.m.

Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC

David Yurdiga

Mr. Gladue, there is also a concern that a lot of these artifacts are very sensitive to light or humidity and need special care. Moving forward, everyone wants to see the first nations and all the indigenous and aboriginal people, Inuit...I think I covered all of them.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Gordie Hogg Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC

The Métis.

11:35 a.m.

Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC

David Yurdiga

Yes, I said Métis. I don't want to leave anyone out.

However, regarding the infrastructure and the money that goes with that, can a lot of the groups manage it all without federal or provincial help?

11:35 a.m.

Co-founder, Bigstone Empowerment Society

Travis Gladue

It's a great question, David. I can speak for Bigstone, but I can't speak for....

Right now, we just finished building a facility. We just upgraded a building, but just to do that alone costs $200,000. Now we're at a standstill because we don't have a budget for a salary to hire somebody. We don't even have the proper equipment for the case for the equipment or for the lighting. Yes, we have the structure and we have the building, but again this is where working collectively with all the different agencies and levels of government will be a crucial and vital component. Everyone needs to work together.

11:35 a.m.

Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC

David Yurdiga

You also mentioned grassroots in one of your statements. Going forward with this national action plan, how do you foresee the stakeholders being spread out? Who should be the stakeholders in this conversation?

11:35 a.m.

Co-founder, Bigstone Empowerment Society

Travis Gladue

I think it comes down to that area and region, so definitely it should include the local MLA and the local MP. The chief and council should be supportive; obviously they have to govern their nations. Also, there should be a board, a group, a collective, members from that region, from that community. It can consist of elders, young people, everybody, with a wide variety of backgrounds, to bring this all together, but that is definitely a lot of uncharted territory that still needs to be discovered.

11:35 a.m.

Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC

David Yurdiga

Thank you, Mr. Gladue.

Mr. Oliver, you mentioned education providing first nations with the ability to understand the artifacts they are getting and how to maintain them and care for them. How widespread is that training? This is the first time I've heard of the training that's provided. Is that widespread throughout Canada, or is this just a pilot project in one part of the country or a province?

11:40 a.m.

Director, Research, Canadian Museum of History

Dr. Dean Oliver

I can only speak for my museum.

In fact, one of the two very direct and powerful influences of the task force report on museums in 1992 was the creation of a very powerful effort in our museum to engage in widespread repatriation talks with communities across the country, and we've been doing it ever since.

Second was the creation of the aboriginal training program in Indigenous Affairs that I mentioned, which has had a minimum of three people in it—sometimes six or seven—in response to that task force's report on the need to increase indigenous capacity across the country to handle their own provenancial materials, their own culture, their own stories. We've been doing that diligently ever since.

However, that's a very small aspect of the ways in which we, on a daily and monthly basis, engage with indigenous communities. We do everything from facilitating visits to collections to see their own material to the provision—by loan, by repatriation, or by other custodial sharing arrangements—of material back into communities.

Sometimes there are no museum-quality environmental controls to handle things, and we physically create them for those communities—for example, by putting discreet display cases in chief and band council offices. It is also sometimes redistributing or disseminating linguistic, craft and ceremonial knowledge that has resided with us for many decades—in some cases 150 years—that may in fact be lost in communities. We have done that across a broad range of areas, from the Far North to the coast of B.C. to Nova Scotia.

Finally, on a yearly basis, we send people into the field for discussions, for collecting, etc., including archaeological fieldwork. We have used all of those opportunities to talk to people about our collections and about the work they can do in their own communities.

To give you a very small example, we—

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to let you bring that example through another question, perhaps, because we're out of time.

11:40 a.m.

Director, Research, Canadian Museum of History

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you.

We will now go to Mr. Nantel.

October 2nd, 2018 / 11:40 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the two witnesses who are joining us.

Mr. Gladue, during your testimony, I tried to obtain more information on the Bigstone Empowerment Society. So you are located north of Edmonton, about 300 kilometres from your potential museum. However, I would mainly like to know how long you have been communicating the Cree community's intention to recover its artifacts.

How long have you been working on this issue?

11:40 a.m.

Co-founder, Bigstone Empowerment Society

Travis Gladue

It has been two years now.

I mentioned at the end about Maxime Beauregard. I was doing some research about the Charles Camsell Indian Hospital. There were residents who stayed there from Wabasca, from my community. They had made items while they were patients at the Camsell. These artifacts were sent over to the Royal Alberta Museum.

I started inquiring, and no one came forward to claim them. It wasn't that nobody wanted to; I think that maybe other members from my nation didn't know how to go about it. I was proactive and contacted the RAM, and that's how this process began.

I'm also a co-founder of the Bigstone Empowerment Society, which originated from Calling Lake, Alberta. The lady's name is Gloria Anderson. She's a great person.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

It seems to me that you are kind of a pioneer in these démarches, these actions taken.

Mr. Casey explained to us how empowering it is in the political area and how important this bill has become to him. He could see the difference it would make.

I asked you how long you have been involved in this repatriation. Please explain how deep the effect is on a nation to retrieve these artifacts. How significant is it?

11:45 a.m.

Co-founder, Bigstone Empowerment Society

Travis Gladue

How long do I have?

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

You have four and a half minutes.