Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 20th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

I call to order our 131st meeting of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Today we're continuing our study of Bill C-369, an act to amend the Bills of Exchange Act, the Interpretation Act and the Canada Labour Code on National Indigenous Peoples Day.

I thank the witnesses for being here and for your patience, because we did have votes.

Before we begin, I was going to propose to the committee that we will slightly amend the rounds so that we can try to have time for questions for both sets of witnesses. We will have a five-minute round of three questions, one to each party, after each set of witnesses. That might bring us only slightly over the scheduled time. I have that in mind.

Today we have with us, on the first panel, Aaron Wudrick of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. We have, by video conference, Elizabeth Edgar-Webkamigad from the Shingwauk Residential Schools Centre. We have with us in person Alania Sanregret and Pauline Mawer from the Bonnyville Friendship Centre.

Just because of technical issues, we'll start with the video conference, if that's all right with you. Please begin your presentation.

Thanks.

[Elizabeth Edgar-Webkamigad, Director, Shingwauk Residential Schools Centre]

First of all, I would like to say thank you for the invitation.

My name is Elizabeth Edgar-Webkamigad. My Ojibwa name is Nenookaasi, which translates from our beautiful language to “hummingbird”. I am Ojibwa, Odawa and Pottowattomi. I come from Wikwemikong, which is on Manitoulin Island, but I live here in Sault Ste. Marie and I have for the last 23 years.

I'd like to first acknowledge the beautiful territory where this university and this Shingwauk Residential Schools Centre are located. We are among the Ojibwa of Garden River and the Ojibwa of Batchewana First Nation, and along with the traditional historic Métis settlement, one of the largest settlements in our area. We are in the heart of the Great Lakes, and I'm certainly very honoured to represent Shingwauk Residential Schools Centre.

I'll give a little bit of history of this site. The Shingwauk Residential Schools Centre was formed in the early 1980s as a result of a number of former residential school students deciding to come together and make sure that the historical portion of their existence—being a residential school student and the legacy of that time in our history—was not forgotten. The Shingwauk Residential Schools Centre came out of the formation of that group of alumni.

I'd like to indicate that I've had the honour of speaking with a number of people over the last little while, once the invitation was received. I asked them questions about what kinds of things we should keep in mind when we're looking at having this conversation about why a day like this is so important. I thank the children of Shingwauk alumni; two of our local chiefs; some of the students who attend Algoma University; some of our staff; our instructors, both at Algoma University and Shingwauk Kinoomaage Gamig; and some of our local school boards and their staff. As well, I thank the event that I just came from in B.C. that was sponsored by Universities Canada and hosted by the University of Victoria—the gathering on reconciliation.

The message is clear that for the next seven generations, people must think today. If we're looking at Anishinabe people, one of the responsibilities we have is to think forward about those next seven generations and what kinds of things we can do today that help to ensure the good life—mino-bimaadiziwin—for them.

One of the messages that was really important and that was a common thread for all of the different people that I spoke to is how important it is to acknowledge resilience and hope. The resilience of Anishinabe people right across the land is important. People like me who are working in the field of education and cross-cultural learning want to create a sense of hope that our messages will continue to be heard.

There's a commitment to continued relationship-building. In that relationship-building, all of us are challenged to take action and tell the truth, and we make it a priority. In doing so, we give recognition and acknowledgement to Canada's first people and Anishinabe right across the land. If I'm given a day, I'm hopeful that not only I but other Canadians will have opportunity to reflect and certainly honour through participation and different events that might happen, and give some respect to the importance and significance of a special day.

My last message to you as you think about the work that you're doing is that one of the most pronounced thoughts that came from the event I just travelled back home from on Saturday is that not only is multi-generational trauma something that has come down through the generations, but almost as important—if not more important—is that we see multi-generational resilience. Anishinabe people—first nations people—are resilient people and there is some beauty in that.

Finally, one gentleman—a young man, an international student—who was at this gathering talked about his arrival into Canada. Landing at Vancouver airport, he saw a beautiful big totem pole.

He said, “I actually figured there must be some kind of significance to that totem pole. It's so big and so beautiful. I'm going to seek out a local person”—this was while he was walking through the airport—“to see if I can find out some history about it, to find out what it was.”

To all of us listening at the Universities Canada gathering on reconciliation, to all of our surprise, he spoke to a local. This young man was an East Indian. He spoke to a local, and he asked, “Do you have any idea what this is, this beautiful thing I'm seeing?” The person responded, “Yes, I'm local, and it has something to do with being Indian.” Then she said to him, “I think it's really important, what you're looking at.”

Then he said he said to himself, “If this is really important and it's Indian, how come I don't know anything about it? I'm Indian.”

He said it was at that point when he actually found out, when he came to school—he was going to school at the University of Victoria—that he was not aware that many people know Canada's history and that it is important for us, working in the university system, to make sure that Canada's history is being told in a good way, a kind way, and a truthful way. He said that he couldn't go back home to his home country without knowing that truth.

I really believe a day like this might help to create that dialogue, that respect, that reciprocal relationship-building and mending that allows people, all of us, an understanding of what Canada is about, with Canada's first people.

Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you very much. We will now go to Aaron Wudrick, of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, please.

[Aaron Wudrick, Federal Director, Canadian Taxpayers Federation]

Madam Chair, good morning, and thank you to the committee for the invitation. My name is Aaron Wudrick, and I am the federal director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. We are a non-profit, non-partisan advocacy group with over 140,000 supporters across Canada. Our advocacy is centred on three areas: lower taxes, less waste and government accountability.

I'm very pleased to appear today with respect to Bill C-369 regarding the proposal to make National Indigenous Peoples Day a statutory holiday. I think it is worth saying at the start that it goes without saying that the objectives underlying this bill, which are the recognition of the historical wrongs endured Canada's indigenous peoples and the need for reconciliation with all Canadians, are not controversial. I think that the idea enjoys wide support across the political spectrum and with all Canadians.

The fundamental question, though, is whether creating a new statutory holiday is either necessary or desirable in advancing this goal, and we should consider some of the costs that it will impose.

Simply put, statutory holidays are not free. They come at a cost to the economy, to employers and to taxpayers. The size of that cost will, of course, depend on who is affected. I know that certain estimates on this bill have mentioned it impacting 6% of the labour force. The Canadian Federation of Independent Businesses has put forward a figure of $3.6 billion in lost productivity. We had a member of Parliament who suggested that the cost to taxpayers would be just under $200 million. That is a day's worth of federal payroll.

Now, this does not mean we never have any statutory holidays, but it is an obvious reason that we don't have an unlimited number of them.

I think another important point worth considering with respect to whether or not a holiday is the best way to advance the social goal at hand here is to look at Remembrance Day as a useful analogy. While it is a holiday in some provinces and for federal workplaces, it is not in others, including, importantly, for schools. Indeed, many veterans themselves expressed concern that if Remembrance Day were to become a school holiday, it would actually deprive children of a very important opportunity to reflect and learn about something that is very important.

I think you can make a similar argument with respect to National Indigenous Peoples Day. The important thing about this day would be that Canadians take time to learn, reflect upon and understand the history and cultures of our indigenous peoples. That may not necessarily be best achieved by creating a holiday. I can tell you that as a young person, I didn't take very much time during the May long weekend to learn about Queen Victoria.

That said, if the committee does feel the need to have a statutory holiday to mark this day, I would suggest that it consider repurposing an existing holiday, one that is already recognized in most of the country, and of course I am thinking of the civic holiday in August. It would imbue that day with a particular meaning and purpose, but would also avoid the additional costs to businesses and taxpayers that a new holiday would incur.

That's all I have. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you very much.

We will now go to the Bonnyville Friendship Centre, with Alania Sanregret and Pauline Mawer, please.

[Alania Sanregret, Program Manager, Bonnyville Friendship Centre]

The Bonnyville Friendship Centre is located within the town of Bonnyville in Alberta. It was incorporated under the Societies Act on January 30, 1975. In accordance with our mandate, we are dedicated to bridging the gap between indigenous and non-indigenous community members culturally, socially, economically and recreationally by promoting communication and understanding among all people.

The Bonnyville Friendship Centre consistently provides programs and a broad continuum of services that assist people in the community. According to the 2017 municipal census, the population of Bonnyville is 6,422 people. That is the town of Bonnyville. The Municipal District of Bonnyville, which we also serve, has a population of 11,660 and incorporates first nation communities of Treaty 6 territory as well as the Elizabeth Métis Settlement, and we do stretch our services out to a number of other settlements.

The Bonnyville Friendship Centre creates a healthy, positive and productive community by working together to empower families and individuals through innovative and cultural services. Therefore, on behalf of the board and staff of Bonnyville Friendship Centre, I, Alania Sanregret, program manager, and Pauline, our assistant executive director, have taken the honour and opportunity to be speaking on the proposed Canadian Heritage Bill C-369.

We recognize that we are gathered here today on unceded traditional territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin people, and we would like to thank Georgina Jolibois for introducing Bill C-369 and beginning this conversation regarding honouring the indigenous people of Canada.

Our friendship centre utilizes every opportunity to celebrate and promote indigenous culture in our community. We celebrate National Indigenous Peoples Day on June 21 every year by hosting a free community event that highlights our cultural strengths, resiliency and the knowledge of indigenous people. We host approximately 1,000 community members every year, bringing in indigenous dancers, drummers, Métis fiddlers and speakers.

In addition to the cultural activities, we share a spiritual component in which our local elders coordinate a sacred pipe ceremony where prayers are offered for prosperity for our community in the upcoming season. The date that has been chosen for National Indigenous Peoples Day is June 21, and that is the summer solstice celebration, which has been a celebration of indigenous people across Canada since before the rivers began.

Our pipe ceremony is held seasonally in our centre, and it's another way our centre calls attention to our cultural strengths. Attendees are dignitaries, schoolchildren, teachers, agency partners and residents of the town and Municipal District of Bonnyville. Even though June 21 has not been recognized as a statutory holiday, our agency in Bonnyville grants the staff a day in lieu in order to facilitate the work that is done on that particular day.

We do have some reservations about the bill.

To show appreciation and to honour indigenous people of Canada, declaring a statutory holiday will provide an opportunity to celebrate and educate through honouring both the tragedies and triumphs of indigenous people in Canada.

However, should June 21 become a statutory holiday, schools would be closed. We celebrate on June 21 regardless of whether it is a school day or not. We greatly value the opportunity to expose indigenous culture to children and youth in Bonnyville who may not have ever learned anything about indigenous culture. We believe that June 21 should be reserved for the celebration of National Indigenous Peoples Day to ensure that youth are encouraged to take part, and that an alternate day would be optimal for a statutory holiday to honour indigenous people. We believe that if June 21 becomes a statutory holiday, we may miss out on the opportunity to involve our young community members in our traditions and celebrations.

As well, funding for this event from Canadian Heritage as well as Alberta Indigenous Relations takes into consideration the number of participants as well as the date, depending on who we're applying to for our funding. If involvement declines, we may consequently have a decrease in funding, which would then lessen the impact we have on the community.

We support Bill C-369 and the creation of a national statutory holiday to commemorate the impact that indigenous people have had on the formation of Canada. However, we propose that we keep National Indigenous Peoples Day as a celebration and choose an alternate day for the proposed Bill C-369.

We presently celebrate Victoria Day as a statutory holiday to recognize the ruling monarch when Canada was formed on July 1, 1867. Would it not be pertinent to allocate a similar regard to our country's indigenous people, to celebrate and share the strong and profuse culture and traditions of indigenous people in Canada?

We recommend that this committee continue to consult indigenous people during this process and that Canadians use this conversation to learn and celebrate the history of indigenous people in Canada.

In summary, celebrating indigenous people on a statutory holiday will honour Canada as a nation by recognizing the lives and the culture of indigenous people past, present and future. Much needs to be considered when designating a national statutory holiday and other commemorations.

That is all I have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you very much.

We'll now begin our question period with five-minute questions.

Wayne Long will start.

[Wayne Long, Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses this morning.

Mr. Wudrick, it's good to see you again.

[Aaron Wudrick]

Thank you.

[Wayne Long]

Can you just remind me and the committee who makes up the Canadian Taxpayers Federation? Who sits on your board? Is it a combination of citizens and regular taxpayers? Can you just tell me who makes up your board?

[Aaron Wudrick]

We have, I believe, five or six members as our board of directors right now. They're all volunteers. I believe there are now two women and three men, or two and four. I don't know what other kind of—

[Wayne Long]

I guess my question is this: Is it just representatives of businesses, or is it citizens and other regular taxpayers? You're called the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, but is it just businesses?

[Aaron Wudrick]

No, no. We have one lawyer. We have an accountant. We have someone who runs a public relations firm. We have someone who works in government relations. We've had people from all walks of life sit on our board. When we say that we're the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, the choice of the word “taxpayer” is really to emphasize the fact that people pay taxes and expect services in return. We try to be the counterweight to groups that are trying to push for more spending all the time without consideration as to where that money is coming from.

[Wayne Long]

What per cent of your members would be businesses?

[Aaron Wudrick]

Maybe 10%. There are business people who support our organization, but I couldn't give you a percentage.

[Wayne Long]

Okay. You mentioned in your testimony that your group came up with $3.6 billion in lost productivity.

[Aaron Wudrick]

That was the CFIB's number.

[Wayne Long]

Do you have any idea how it came up with that figure or how it calculated that figure?

[Aaron Wudrick]

I do not.

[Wayne Long]

You do not.

Did your group do any calculation on the costs of not doing reconciliation? Do you think there's a bigger picture here?

I know that you talk about the cost of the holiday. Obviously, I know that you're not suggesting we get rid of Christmas, Victoria Day and Remembrance Day—I respect that—but has your group at all considered the cost of not doing it?

[Aaron Wudrick]

I don't know how you'd begin to quantify that. Obviously, reconciliation is an important goal. I don't think there's anybody who disputes that. The question is how you would quantify the impact of not having a holiday on the ability for Canadians to experience reconciliation.

[Wayne Long]

Do you think that reconciliation should be free?

[Aaron Wudrick]

No, I think there are going to be costs involved. I'm simply saying that we have to always have the cost up front and in mind when we're making these types of decisions.

[Wayne Long]

Do you feel that reconciliation is only meant to generate economic benefits?

[Aaron Wudrick]

No. If that were the case, if we were only going to have holidays on that basis, we wouldn't have any at all.