Evidence of meeting #131 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was school.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.
Will you not admit, though, that there's a bigger picture there with reconciliation with indigenous groups, with first nations, that supersedes just the sheer cost?
Noon
Federal Director, Canadian Taxpayers Federation
Absolutely. It's not just about dollars and cents. I'm simply noting that there is a cost involved with that, and we can't ignore that fact. Also, as I pointed out in my remarks, can we achieve these objectives with or without this holiday? I think that's a fair question.
Noon
Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.
Again, you don't know how the CFIB came up with the $3.6 billion. From your organization's standpoint, what do you feel the cost is?
Noon
Federal Director, Canadian Taxpayers Federation
That sounds high. I think it's somewhere in between the two figures I quoted. The cost to the federal payroll would be $195 million. There's obviously a cost to private employers as well. I think you're probably looking at figure somewhere between $200 million and $3.6 billion.
Noon
Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.
Ms. Sanregret, could you just speak to the cost of not doing reconciliation?
Noon
Program Manager, Bonnyville Friendship Centre
I could not speak to a financial cost, but I can speak to—
Noon
Program Manager, Bonnyville Friendship Centre
—a social cost. When we talk about reconciliation, I often hear about residential schools almost to the extent of not really addressing any of the other issues and struggles and tragedies that have occurred in Canada.
The indigenous population is approximately 9%, 8%—I can't think of an exact number—but the overrepresentation of indigenous people in our child welfare systems, our criminal and family justice systems is very far above that. It's over any other cultural group.
I guess financially the cost of not looking to heal.... The point of reconciliation is to heal, to heal the old wounds and the wounds that are still continuing, because this is still going on today.
We may not have residential schools and we may not have the marked difference that was going on during the sixties in the welfare scoop, but we still have that overrepresentation in children's services. We still see indigenous people being charged with crimes that non-indigenous people may not be. I've sat in courtrooms many times and have seen indigenous people receiving time they have to serve in prisons, whereas non-indigenous people may not receive the same amount of time. There's a lot of background, a lot of reasons for this that would probably take days to talk about.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
Unfortunately we're already over time, so if you just have a quick—
12:05 p.m.
Program Manager, Bonnyville Friendship Centre
Okay. All right.
As for the financial and social cost of reconciliation, it would be a safe return on investment to invest in reconciliation in all ways.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
We will now go to Mr. Shields. I believe you're sharing your time with Mr. Yurdiga.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today and sharing.
Ms. Sanregret, I found your comments about trying to figure out the best way to handle it interesting.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Is it better on a day when you have the school experience that day, versus another day? I think that's a challenge you have.
One of the things the MP sponsor was talking about was the sense of moving forward. I think the totem pole example that you talked about was a good—
12:05 p.m.
Program Manager, Bonnyville Friendship Centre
Actually, that was Elizabeth—
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Yes, that was mentioned by her, but the idea is learning going forward and moving forward. I think she strongly pointed out the moving-forward aspect rather than looking backwards all the time. What is your response to that?
12:05 p.m.
Program Manager, Bonnyville Friendship Centre
To move forward, we need to acknowledge what has happened. We've seen that in world history. If we do not acknowledge what has happened, it's almost impossible to move forward without making those same mistakes again. The acknowledgement, without shame or blame or guilt, is very important. It's important to know that this is what happened.
A large percentage of our population still does not know about residential schools, about the changes in legislation on reserves that were made during the 1800s and 1900s. Those things are not known—how reserves are funded, what the Métis settlements are in Alberta. Acknowledging the wonderful things that indigenous people have done in Canada and acknowledging the tragedies that have happened are all part of learning. Then we can move forward. We need to know what we're moving forward from.
November 20th, 2018 / 12:05 p.m.
David Yurdiga Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC
Thank you very much, witnesses, for coming out here today.
I had an opportunity to talk to a lot of indigenous people in my riding, and I heard about costs. They're anywhere from $400 million upwards, and this bill primarily deals with federal employees.
I heard a comment from an elder. Everybody's supportive of the holiday. We have to acknowledge the first people, the first Canadians, with acknowledgement, remembrance and sacrifice.
She came up with a concept that this is a sacrifice, and she doesn't believe federal employees should be paid for a day off. That money should go to infrastructure, because first nations people were good enough to share the land with us, and it should be a day that we give back.
I'd like to address this to Mr. Wudrick. What are your thoughts on this?
12:05 p.m.
Federal Director, Canadian Taxpayers Federation
That's very interesting. From our standpoint, there's no additional cost to taxpayers there. That's simply redirecting money that would go from one place to another place. From a fiscal standpoint, that seems fine with us.
12:05 p.m.
Program Manager, Bonnyville Friendship Centre
I find it very interesting as well. I would want to take into consideration that there are some federal employees who don't make a whole lot of money, and if there's a day off, having extra additional funds going into education and supporting indigenous children would be incredibly beneficial.
12:05 p.m.
Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC
Thank you.
Mr. Blaney, do you have a question?