Evidence of meeting #131 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was school.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Elizabeth Edgar-Webkamigad  Director, Shingwauk Residential Schools Centre
Aaron Wudrick  Federal Director, Canadian Taxpayers Federation
Alania Sanregret  Program Manager, Bonnyville Friendship Centre
Wayne Long  Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.
David Yurdiga  Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC
Steven Blaney  Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
Marie Wilson  Former Commissioner, Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada, As an Individual
Clément Chartier  President, Métis National Council

12:05 p.m.

Steven Blaney Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC

I have a short question.

I am sorry I am late.

The date was discussed. I see my friend has a note. I am a former veterans affairs minister, and we used to commemorate the sacrifice of veterans on June 21. I am a Quebecker, so we have June 24. I found this very convenient.

Have you already shared any thoughts, or maybe you'd like just to wrap it up for me, on the best time to commemorate both—to celebrate first nations, but also to commemorate the tragedy of what happened in the past?

Madam Sanregret, would you comment?

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

You have one minute.

12:10 p.m.

Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC

Steven Blaney

That's good enough.

12:10 p.m.

Program Manager, Bonnyville Friendship Centre

Alania Sanregret

Personally, I think June 21, because indigenous people traditionally celebrated on the equinoxes and the solstices. For our organization, that has some problems associated with it, so I really don't know when we should do it.

We have a civic holiday in August. My kids have always asked what it was for, and I have never had an answer. Just consider and weigh every option.

12:10 p.m.

Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC

Steven Blaney

Thank you.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

We'll continue with Mr. Nantel for five minutes.

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

First, I would like to thank all the witnesses.

I am really pleased to see how the witnesses we have been welcoming consistently show us that this bill was not only necessary, but also urgent. All of the presentations point out that it was high time to fix this, to give people the time they need to reflect on what happened and recognize the successes of First Nations. To this end, June 21 is a step in that direction, as opposed to Orange Shirt Day.

As I listen to the debate, I am thinking in particular of the issue of children who are not in school because of a holiday, for example. There is the whole notion of mediation, which seeks to promote First Nations and allow exchanges between white people and First Nations communities. From this point of view, I cannot help but go back to how July 1 is celebrated. There's not much in terms of mediation activities on Victoria Day. By the way, some people are very happy with that. I am one of them.

However, there is funding for the July 1 celebrations. Funds are also allocated to festivities and mediation activities for Quebec's national holiday. I think it's less than 50 cents per person.

Do you not think that we should first ensure that we have the funding needed for the festivities and mediation, recognition and reconciliation activities?

If there is no mediation activity, if there is no time to organize celebrations, although June 21 may be a perfect time to do so, it's sort of like whistling in the wind. Everyone would have the day off and stay home to watch a movie.

My question is for everyone, but perhaps we should start with Ms. Edgar-Webkamigad, who is with us by videoconference.

12:10 p.m.

Director, Shingwauk Residential Schools Centre

Elizabeth Edgar-Webkamigad

Thank you for the question. I think it's a valid question.

I too have worked here in our community for the last 23 years. At one point, I was the executive director of our Indian friendship centre. We too, just like my colleague who is sitting at the table talking about her community in Alberta, would look to offer celebrations on June 21 and make them open to the whole community so that everybody could come and experience a bit of our first nations culture. That day is definitely a day of celebration.

Now, if you look at September 30, which is known across the land as Orange Shirt Day and is a movement that is newer or more recent, we are still seeing people who are becoming educated and aware. It's important to note that the young ones at school are bringing that message home.

I had one of my colleagues talk about when her child came home from school last year with a calendar, and on September 30, it said, “Orange Shirt Day”. She didn't realize that Orange Shirt Day was dedicated to remembering our residential school students, all of them, the ones who made it home and the ones who didn't. She thought, out of ignorance, that it had something to do with getting ready for the month of October, which is the very next day, and the celebration of Halloween.

Because of cross-cultural education and awareness that happens in our communities, and now that we see September 30 being talked about in the media and on social media, people like my colleague are now informed.

That day, on the Friday previous to the weekend, we had our different school boards acknowledging and putting messages out on media about September 30 and what it was about. We had our local post-secondary institutions acknowledging and putting forth action so that community members, both indigenous and non-indigenous, could come together to acknowledge, pay respect, and make a stand on the commitment to recognizing and remembering the legacy of residential schools.

I agree that it is a challenge. Do we put everything into June 21? Do we acknowledge September 30? Which day do we pick? That remains certainly a challenge that you at your table will have to think about, but I know that people are going to move ahead regardless. Those of us who are interested in making sure that we are moving forward in our relationships are going to be doing things regardless.

If we have the support of the federal government in acknowledging a national day, then we hope that it allows Canadians the opportunity to not worry about, “Do I go and attend this event and lose pay if I go on June 21 because it's a work day and I have to take a vacation day for it, or will I have that opportunity to be paid?”

12:15 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

To have an event you need funding, though.

12:15 p.m.

Director, Shingwauk Residential Schools Centre

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

The time for questions is up.

Thank you to all of our witnesses on the first panel. Thank you again for your patience while you waited for us.

We are going to suspend briefly. I am going to ask you to keep it very short so that we can get to our second panel. Thank you.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

We will now resume our meeting.

We now welcome Marie Wilson, former commissioner of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada, and Clément Chartier, who is president of the Métis National Council.

Ms. Wilson, the floor is yours.

November 20th, 2018 / 12:20 p.m.

Marie Wilson Former Commissioner, Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada, As an Individual

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Let me begin by acknowledging that we are gathered on traditional Algonquin Anishinabe territory, and say how grateful I am to be here today. I want to point out what is perhaps obvious, which is that I'm still wearing a poppy today. With no offence intended to the protocols of the Canadian Legion, I did it intentionally because, as you will hear, I want to focus our attention on remembrance.

The work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was officially over three years ago, and it was the honour of my lifetime to serve as one of its three commissioners. While I appear before you today as an independent party, I want you to know that I have reviewed my thoughts for today with both of my commissioner colleagues: our chair, then Justice but now Senator Murray Sinclair, and Chief Dr. Wilton Littlechild.

I have also reviewed them with Dr. Barney Williams, the TRC elder who was a member of our survivor advisory committee. I wanted to make sure we are all still on the same page of understanding the issues before this committee as they relate to our TRC findings and calls to action. I want you to know that indeed we are. While I do not speak for them, I am assured that we are still of a shared opinion, beginning with this reminder of what we said at our official closing and what we have each said repeatedly ever since, which is that the long-term work of reconciliation has barely begun.

It's clear from private member's Bill C-369—and I want to thank Madame Jolibois for bringing it forward—and also from the convening of this committee to carefully consider it, that you are devoting efforts to following through on some of our TRC conclusions that fall to the federal government to enact. In that light, and in the spirit of reconciliation, I am indeed very pleased to be here today. I hope you will find my comments useful to support you in your work and to help you in your deliberations.

I want to begin by having all of us remember what brought us into this room today: the historic thing that happened in Canada early this century. Indigenous residential school survivors took the federal government and the churches that ran those schools to court. A massive legal settlement that supported the survivors' case included the obligation to establish a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, the first national TRC in the western world and the first to focus on harms to our nation's own children.

After six and a half years of work, our 10-volume TRC final report, informed by official government and church records, documented the history of the so-called Indian residential schools. We reported that they were built on a foundation of attitudes: a belief that indigenous people were inferior; that their cultures and identities should, could and would be extinguished; and that the fastest and cheapest way to do that was to put their children in residential schools, far from parental influence and cultural teachings.

What price does a country pay for such attitudes? Almost 7,000 residential school survivors made statements to our TRC, recording the harms and heartaches of their school days: family rupture, fear, humiliation and abuses of all kinds. The most definitive harm was death itself. So many told us they spoke for the voiceless, those they had seen die and those they knew to have died or disappeared—their schoolmates, friends and siblings.

A few years ago I visited the burial ground of Regina Industrial School, one of Canada's earliest Indian residential schools. Those graves were unmarked and the cemetery overrun. I still remember the overwhelming feelings. What if the children lying here were my ancestors? What if the children and grandchildren in my life were taken away by government agents, police or religious leaders, with promises of good education, only to end their shortened lives in such an abandoned field? Let me be sure you understand that this is not the only such residential school graveyard in our country.

We know for sure that 3,200 indigenous children died at those schools—highly disproportionate for Canadian children. A thousand others were sent home in the latter stages of illness, or to “Indian” hospitals, to die there within the first year.

All told, likely double that number died. It was closer to 6,000 or more, because so many others were only partially documented: a first-name child here, a no-name child there, sometimes a home community reference for another and only maybe the gender of the child. Some were sick, some died in fires in condemned school buildings, and some drowned or froze to death trying to run away from school horrors. Too frequently, no cause of death at all was even noted. Countless indigenous children lie in school cemeteries long since abandoned. Some are in mass graves and some were buried before parents were ever told of their passing, the cause of death or the gravesite location.

Our TRC created the national residential school death register, the only national effort ever made to record all the names of all students who died and to locate their graves. We are nowhere close to finding them all. As we have said in our report, that will require much more research, analysis and resources. As well, we say that reconciliation on this front also needs ongoing education and continual remembrance that this loss of life happened on our own soil as a result of our own laws and policies.

A few years back, a farmer came across what appeared to be four burial sites at the edge of a field. There is both remembrance and reconciliation in what happened next. The church that ran a nearby residential school and indigenous spiritual leaders collaborated in a traditional sending-home ceremony for the little souls in these newly found graves, as well as for so many other former students from that school.

We have a very long history of noting the names of the fallen on public monuments to victims of war. Learning the names of the deceased makes it real, transforming them from statistics to somebody's relatives and helping us relate to the enormity of the tragedy. Even more powerful is the experience of hearing those names aloud.

That day, they were children's names. They didn't go to war. They went to school.

In the midst of such a reverent ceremony, I got thinking about Remembrance Day. My grandfather was a soldier in World War I. Several of my uncles fought in World War II, and my father served the final year of that war here in Canada. All of that influenced our family culture. I spent many bittersweet childhood days gathered around public cenotaphs learning about Remembrance Day in school. My husband and I have raised our children and grandchildren to do the same: to learn about those wars and others since, to learn to honour the fallen, and to learn to remember, lest we forget.

For me, the comparisons are obvious. Our Truth and Reconciliation Commission motto was “For the child taken, for the parent left behind”. As a country, we understand fully the heartache of a mother who has lost a son or daughter to war. We make great efforts to bring home with dignity and ceremony anyone lost, and to honour the parent left behind. Each year, as we did recently, we honour a Silver Cross Mother to represent all grieving parents. We mark Remembrance Day in a national ceremony in all our schools and at monuments throughout the country in honour of all veterans, living or dead. We acknowledge, collectively, those never found with the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

When have we ever demonstrated such reverence for residential school children, also lost in a state-sanctioned context of proven harm? We have failed to keep any track of them, much less bring them home in ceremony. We have shown unceremonious disregard for any parent left behind. How many days have we ever gathered together nationally to remember thousands of children who died on Canada's own soil? As for the missing in circumstances still unknown, where is our national monument to the unknown child?

As I have said in other contexts, we are a country still learning to remember. Indeed, we are a country with much still to learn about many things, especially about each other. The 94 calls to action of our Truth and Reconciliation Commission are all about that, and some of them specifically about the missing children.

In this committee's discussions to date, specific reference was made to TRC call to action 80:

We call upon the federal government, in collaboration with Aboriginal peoples, to establish, as a statutory holiday, a National Day for Truth and Reconciliation to honour Survivors, their families, and communities, and ensure that public commemoration of the history and legacy of residential schools remains a vital component of the reconciliation process.

Specifically, this call is for a national day for truth and reconciliation.

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Ms. Wilson, I've let you go a little over time already. I was going to ask if you would be able to....

12:30 p.m.

Former Commissioner, Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada, As an Individual

Marie Wilson

I am coming to a conclusion. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Yet I note that in the bill you are considering, Bill C-369, it is also being referred to as National Indigenous Day. I just want to take my remaining minutes to clarify our TRC intentions to this specific call to action.

There is a flow and pattern to our 94 calls to action, and 80 exists in the context of those surrounding it, those that are talking about identification, documentation, consecration, protection and remembrance. More specifically, some of them are about missing children and burial information and about memorialization and commemoration through national, provincial and territorial monuments and markers and an annual day of remembrance.

Of all the days that are already familiar to Canadians, the national day of truth and reconciliation envisioned by the TRC would have most in common with Remembrance Day. It would be a solemn day for all Canadians to remember 150,000 children who attended and suffered, and thousands who died in Canada's own state-sponsored facilities. As we have said, to ensure the public commemoration of the history and legacy of residential schools remains a vital component of the reconciliation process.

As a final point, let me offer some distinctions between the purpose of a national day for truth and reconciliation, as we've proposed it, and National Indigenous Peoples Day as it already exists.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Ms. Wilson, perhaps we can bring that out in the questions. I've let you go several minutes over. I want to be mindful of the ability for people to ask questions as well.

12:35 p.m.

Former Commissioner, Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada, As an Individual

Marie Wilson

That's fine with me. Thank you.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

I expect you will get the questions to bring in those answers.

Could we go to Mr. Clément Chartier, please?

12:35 p.m.

Clément Chartier President, Métis National Council

She can take three minutes of my time.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

That's excellent. She already has in some ways, but if you want to take another minute or two....

12:35 p.m.

A voice

Is there agreement?

12:35 p.m.

A voice

Yes.

12:35 p.m.

Former Commissioner, Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada, As an Individual

Marie Wilson

Thank you.

I want to be clear that as commissioners we never intended that the new day we were proposing in call to action 80 would either replace or redefine any day that already existed. We did not specifically comment on National Indigenous Peoples Day. However, we do talk about a nation-to-nation relationship throughout our report. A day for the recognition and celebration of the first peoples of Canada and their founding status within this country is more closely related to the day we already know as Canada Day.

As we all know, the spirit, tone and activities of Canada Day are very distinct from the spirit, tone and activities of Remembrance Day. So too would the spirit, tone and activities of National Indigenous Peoples Day, as we already know it, be very distinct from those of a national day for truth and reconciliation, as we are calling for it. One is about recognition and celebration; the other is about sacrifice, loss, courage, commemoration and remembrance.

I have some things that I could tell you about the experience of National Indigenous Peoples Day because I'm from the Northwest Territories where it is a statutory holiday, but I'll skip over that. I want to give a last word to the survivors.

It strikes me that the poignancy of September makes it the right month for such a sombre recognition as a national day for truth and reconciliation, and our TRC elder agrees. Returning to school was not a happy event for thousands of indigenous children and their parents. As we were told over and over again, often through tears, for many it is still a haunting memory.

One of the multi-generational survivors who spoke to me as commissioner captured it so powerfully in her forced English. She said, “September...everybody cry month...back of truck...all the kids gone...everybody cry.” Another one said, “In September, after the kids were all gone, the communities were so lonely and empty that everybody was crying. Even the dogs cried.”

Finally, I want to say in recalling the apology in the House of Commons, where there were apologies uttered from all the national parties, that it was a demonstration of the importance of reconciliation as a non-partisan issue. I just want to say that I hope that can be the spirit in which you are able to continue your important deliberations. The work of your committee and the dialogue that it has allowed are very important. Your conclusions about the creation of a national day for truth and reconciliation have the great potential to contribute to that ongoing work.

I'll just leave it at that. I thank you for your indulgence.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you.

Mr. Clément Chartier is next, please.

12:35 p.m.

President, Métis National Council

Clément Chartier

Thank you, and good afternoon.

I fully endorse former commissioner Wilson's recommendation, but I will add a little bit to that. I didn't know we were going to be here together, and it's kind of ironic.

I want to preface my statements by saying that September is certainly a month that's very significant. For 11 years—actually, 12 years—I was removed from my community in that month. For 10 years I went to the Métis residential school at Île-à-la-Crosse, 30 miles upriver or downriver—I'm not sure—from the Beauval Indian Residential School, and twice to The Pas in Manitoba to the Charlebois residence.

The only significant difference is that Métis residential schools have yet to be dealt with. We're excluded from the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement because they said it was a church-run institution, and the feds didn't give them any money, whereas they gave the same religious order monies for the treaty Indian kids downriver. We're not included in the Prime Minister's apology, Canada's apology, although I was on the floor of the House of Commons to accept that apology for some two or three hundred Métis who were fortunate enough to attend the Indian residential schools—and, of course, we are not included in the mandate of the TRC, nor are we beneficiaries, although generally we could be, but we're not specific beneficiaries to the recommendations, the 94 calls to action, this being one of them. I didn't know. I haven't read them, because there's no reason for me to read them, because I'm not covered by the TRC. In fact, I wasn't even invited to the final session where it was released. I watched it from two blocks away from my apartment, live, while it was happening at the Delta Hotel.

Anyway, it is total exclusion. It is exclusion from settlement with respect to World War II veterans. The Métis nation veterans are the only veterans in this country not yet dealt with. Also, there was the sixties scoop; we're not included in that either. However, we are working with this government to try to rectify these particular issues.

I make that point to state that I never have embraced June 21 as a celebratory day because we really had nothing to celebrate. My position at that time was that once you give us our land back, once you recognize our governments, once you make reparations for the harms done to our nation, then we can celebrate. However, many of our people do celebrate June 21, as you have heard, so it has become celebratory. I don't take that away from anybody. Our people do embrace that.

I would not want to see June 21 taken as a response to the 80th call to action, as was mentioned by the former commissioner, because it takes something that has been embraced by all indigenous peoples and makes it into something narrower—reconciliation based on the TRC's recommendation, which to me is much narrower.

Reconciliation has to be broader, but even so, tying reconciliation to that particular day I don't think is very good. I do support the September date. I'm not sure if it's the 30th or which date in September, but I do support a different day for that. In fact, the former minister of Heritage Canada did consult with me on this, and I said the very same thing: not June 21. Make it any other day, but not June 21, because while I don't embrace it, many of our people—in fact, I'd say the majority of our people—do embrace it, and we don't want to change it to something else from which we then feel excluded. Then we would have to cease celebrating it.

Basically, yes, I support call to action number 80 for those whom it's meant to cover. At some point we probably will participate in it, because I can't believe that Canada, at some point in time—whether it's 20 years, 50 years or 100 years—won't finally deal with Métis residential schools. They are going to have to do it at some point in time, even if they didn't put in monies for the repression we suffered. We suffered even worse, I believe, than the kids at Beauval, because at least there the federal government gave them money so they had decent food and decent clothes. They also had open spaces.

Where I went, we had a yard that was surrounded by barbed-wire fence. Other than going to school and going for meals, we were enclosed like cattle. We suffered the same kinds of physical, sexual, emotional abuses and the same deprivation from our families.

Again, I just want to punctuate the point that it shouldn't be June 21. Any other day in September would be a good one, because that's very symbolic. I didn't hear that before, but it makes absolute sense, because when September came around, we were ripped away from our families and shipped off.

That's my contribution.