Evidence of meeting #139 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Scott Garvie  Executive Producer, Shaftesbury Films Inc.
Lori Marchand  Managing Director, Indigenous Theatre, National Arts Centre, Indigenous Performing Arts Alliance
David Yurdiga  Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC
Steven Blaney  Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
Julien Castanié  President, Illustration Québec
Robin Metcalfe  Director and Curator of Saint Mary's University Art Gallery, and President, Canadian Art Museum Directors Organization
Wayne Long  Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.
Moira McCaffrey  Executive Director, Canadian Art Museum Directors Organization
Randy Boissonnault  Edmonton Centre, Lib.

4:40 p.m.

President, Illustration Québec

Julien Castanié

That's fine, thank you. I will wrap up.

The last point is to create a resale right in Canada, because not having one is a form of discrimination against Canadian artists who wish to sell their works internationally.

In conclusion, I would say that Quebec illustrators are in a relatively small provincial market, demographically. The licensing system proportionate to the distribution of a work, and therefore copyright, is very fragile in this very small market. In my opinion and that of Illustration Québec, we must both consolidate current copyright, through the resale right and digital private copying rights, extend it to digital and, at the same time, support artists' creative activities through tax credits or support for creation. That is very important.

Thank you very much.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Thank you.

We'll now go to the Canadian Art Museum Directors Organization with Robin Metcalfe and Moira McCaffrey, please.

4:45 p.m.

Robin Metcalfe Director and Curator of Saint Mary's University Art Gallery, and President, Canadian Art Museum Directors Organization

Good afternoon, everyone.

Thank you for having us, Madam Chair.

The Canadian Art Museum Directors Organization represents more than 85 art museum directors who lead a diversity of visual arts institutions across Canada, from sea to sea to sea. It is a lean organization, with a volunteer board and one employee, our executive director, Moira McCaffrey, who is with me today.

Our mission statement asserts that “CAMDO-ODMAC strengthens the ability of Canadian art museum and public art gallery directors to champion art and its significance in society”. It is in this spirit that we address the committee today.

Artists are the foundation of the visual arts ecosystem. Without their creative work, we would have nothing to present to the public. Other organizations, such as Canadian Artists' Representation, have documented the unsatisfactory economic conditions under which many Canadian artists work. It benefits diverse Canadian publics and all those working to bring visual art to them if artists can work in conditions of economic security.

CAMDO-ODMAC was a key initiator of the visual arts summit in 2007. It sought to bring the visual arts sector together to advocate for common interests. Our membership in the Visual Arts Alliance reflects that commitment. We support the alliance's call for a solution that embeds copyright reform within a “holistic set of measures...brought to bear...to...address the ongoing systemic socio-economic precarity of this country's independent and professional artists.”

We are encouraged that this committee is working in tandem with the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology, and is focused, not solely on the Copyright Act, but on the larger question of artists' remuneration.

Many in the visual arts sector struggle to secure the resources needed to provide cultural value to Canadian communities. Art museums must protect their financial and administrative sustainability in order to deliver on their core mandates. We may easily find ourselves in a defensive position, holding on to a small wedge of a pie that, depending on local circumstances, has often not kept pace with the growth of either visual arts production and presentation in Canada or the demonstrated desire of Canadians to experience visual art.

Visual artists rarely earn a living from their artistic practice. It is generally only through other employment, such as teaching, that they enjoy job security, benefits and pensions. Revenue Canada tends to treat them as independent business people. That model is seriously flawed. Artists produce objects and experiences of intangible cultural value for the public good, a value only imperfectly reflected in the price their works command on the open market.

Artists are professional collaborators with museums in presenting their art to various publics. They have a right to fair compensation for the value they provide, through the purchase of art for public collections, and through fees paid for temporary exhibitions, performances, residencies, workshops and presentations.

Our members are guided by a recommended fee schedule agreed upon between CAMDO-ODMAC, the Canadian Museums Association, Canadian Artists' Representation and the Regroupement des artistes en arts visuels du Québec.

However, compensation models that seem to work well for one group may have unforeseen and unintended consequences for another. For example, the recommendation to delete the phrase “created after June 7, 1988” from part I, 3(1) of the Copyright Act would, if implemented, have varying consequences for our members' institutions.

For some, the effects might be negligible. For museums that focus entirely on temporary exhibitions of contemporary art, distinguishing between works in an exhibition on the basis of the date of creation may seem arbitrary. Some may prefer to pay all artists on an equal basis, regardless of the date of creation of their works.

On the other hand, for museums with major historical collections, particularly of mid-20th century and modern art that remains under copyright protection, removing this distinction could have profound consequences, not only in the cost of exhibition fees themselves but also in the administrative burden of tracking down artists and estates to pay those fees. Such administrative costs can easily exceed the amount paid to artists themselves. Increasing such costs might prevent some museums from exhibiting works from their own collections and force others to reduce exhibition programming and invest more in administration, both of which defeat the purpose of getting money into the hands of artists.

Shifting financial burdens between artists and museums may be robbing Peter to pay Paul, when both Peter and Paul require appropriate support to provide that public good.

One copyright mechanism currently in effect in Canada may provide a model for effective deployment of public funds to improve the compensation of creators. Public lending right compensates authors, translators, illustrators, photographers and editors for public access to their work in Canadian libraries.

Under this system, libraries, beyond the purchase cost of a book, do not have to pay creators, nor to track them down to negotiate contracts for the use of their work. The PLR commission samples cataloguing data in selected libraries across Canada, and calculates payments to published creators registered with the program, based on the estimated circulation of their works. Canada was the 13th country to establish such a program in 1986, with an initial budget of $3 million. By 2017, there were 33 countries with comparable systems.

The virtues of the PLR system are: one, it does not impose a financial or heavy administrative burden on institutions within which Canadians access copyright material; two, it minimizes transactional costs by centralizing administration in one commission with which creators simply register, rather than them having to negotiate individual copyright licences; and three, it maximizes the extent to which program costs translate directly into payments to creators.

PLR is a relatively frictionless model. Its characteristics could well be emulated in the administration of other copyright licences. Recommendations for copyright reform need to be considered in the context of other legislation and policies, and the mechanisms used to realize them. Public institutions must have the resources to cover increased costs. Regimes to manage copyright must minimize paperwork and administrative burden, simplify processes, and maximize the delivery of resources to their intended beneficiaries.

We recommend that the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage advise the House to take an integrated approach that balances institutional sustainability with economic security for artists, and that deploys copyright law, taxation policy and funding in a holistic manner; and that the committee consider public lending right as a possible model for management of some payments for uses of artists' copyright.

We echo Visual Arts Alliance's recommendations that the committee work with the Canada Revenue Agency to ensure that the Income Tax Act be interpreted in a way that is consistent with the realities of self-employed artists. It also recommends that the committee equip itself with the appropriate tools to measure and monitor the socioeconomic conditions of working artists.

Those tools should measure and monitor the operational conditions of Canadian museums, so that solutions are institutionally sustainable, and win the support of museum professionals in solidarity with Canadian artists. Further, the committee give artist's resale rights serious consideration, with attention to minimizing any administrative burden it may impose on institutions.

We are willing partners in any conversations or research towards the design of successful models for a renewed copyright regime. A successful reform, we believe, will be an integrated model deploying copyright law, taxation policy and funding, that is financially and administratively sustainable for all parties concerned.

Thank you.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

We are now going to our question and answer period, and we'll begin with Mr. Long, for seven minutes, please.

4:50 p.m.

Wayne Long Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to our presenters this afternoon. It's very informative.

I come from the riding of Saint John—Rothesay, in southern New Brunswick, and it's the home of the New Brunswick Museum, which is Canada's oldest continuing museum, and a growing arts and culture community that's actually exploding. It's really refreshing to see what's happening in southern New Brunswick.

For any industry to survive, grow, flourish, expand or what have you, there needs to be, obviously, health, and there needs to be fair compensation. That's why we're around these tables here talking about this.

Mr. Castanié, you talked about the tax credit and its impact. Can you just elaborate on that, and about the Quebec model for compensation?

4:55 p.m.

President, Illustration Québec

Julien Castanié

Of course.

In Quebec, the Act respecting the professional status and conditions of engagement of performing, recording and film artists grants a tax deduction to professional artists, which allows them to avoid paying tax on the first $15,000 in royalties they receive. This tax credit has a major impact. Earlier, I mentioned some figures on the income of our illustrators: the situation is quite dramatic. Such tax measures are powerful enough levers to help our creators. This tax credit exists only at the provincial level for now, and there is no Canadian equivalent. However, it has proven its worth in providing provincial assistance to creators.

4:55 p.m.

Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.

Wayne Long

Can you tell me what impact you think this had for visual artists living in poverty? Did it help pull them out of poverty?

4:55 p.m.

President, Illustration Québec

Julien Castanié

The outcome is to pay less tax. Any tax credit has an impact on the low-income people, including artists. This deduction in particular helps greatly in this regard for the many artists who manage to earn a little money.

4:55 p.m.

Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.

Wayne Long

What lessons do you think can be learned? If the federal government went forth to implement some kind of a tax credit for visual artists, do you feel it should follow the Quebec model?

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

Please provide a brief answer, Mr. Castanié.

4:55 p.m.

President, Illustration Québec

Julien Castanié

The models are quite different in each province. I understand that in Ontario, it is the first $20,000 in royalties collected that is not taxable. It seems that several provinces have decided to act in a similar way while adapting to the reality of their economies. This seems to have been quite effective.

4:55 p.m.

Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.

Wayne Long

Thank you very much.

Mr. Metcalfe and Ms. McCaffrey, thank you again for your presentation. Can I get your input too? In your view, how can the Copyright Act be improved in order to help ensure that Canadian visual artists are able to earn a livable wage in a visual art industry? Mr. Castanié talked about the tax credit in Quebec. Can you just tell me, first, what you think about the tax credit that's used in Quebec and how we might be able to implement something federally?

4:55 p.m.

Director and Curator of Saint Mary's University Art Gallery, and President, Canadian Art Museum Directors Organization

Robin Metcalfe

I have to preface this by saying that it's not something that we've examined in any detail in our organization.

4:55 p.m.

Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.

Wayne Long

Just your opinion.

4:55 p.m.

Director and Curator of Saint Mary's University Art Gallery, and President, Canadian Art Museum Directors Organization

Robin Metcalfe

I see no objection to it. It sounds in line with what we're recommending. That's what we said in our presentation. Much of what artists do is a public good and the value of it to the public is not fully represented by the compensation they receive. In keeping with that, the tax policy should reflect a recognition of that contribution that is made by creative artists to Canada.

4:55 p.m.

Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.

Wayne Long

Ms. McCaffrey, do you have anything you'd like to add to that?

January 31st, 2019 / 4:55 p.m.

Moira McCaffrey Executive Director, Canadian Art Museum Directors Organization

No. I'm in full agreement with our president.

4:55 p.m.

Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.

Wayne Long

Obviously, we've seen a market transformation over the last several years. I just want to hear about the impact on contemporary artists and how they're affected by digital technology.

5 p.m.

Director and Curator of Saint Mary's University Art Gallery, and President, Canadian Art Museum Directors Organization

Robin Metcalfe

I think it probably affects visual artists the way it affects other creative individuals. I'll say that I am a writer myself, so I'm a creator in that realm. I know that the rise of digital technologies has entirely changed the landscape that existed for recompense for creators based on previous copyright models.

5 p.m.

Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.

Wayne Long

How do we catch up? What do you envision?

5 p.m.

Director and Curator of Saint Mary's University Art Gallery, and President, Canadian Art Museum Directors Organization

Robin Metcalfe

I think there are a number of models that have been proposed. For example, modest charges could be applied to the means of access to the Internet and might then be redistributed in a way similar to what I described for public lending right. It's important. Any such program needs to be modest in the individual charges, so it's not a heavy burden on consumers. If applied across the board and those amounts are collected and then distributed to distributors in a mechanism that is efficient and that minimizes administrative costs and maximizes the flow-through of resources to creators, then I think that it's an appropriate model to look at.

5 p.m.

Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.

Wayne Long

My background is sports and hockey management, and business also. I'm learning as I go on this committee.

I've not seen such a disparity, and so many artists and people contributing to arts and culture who absolutely live day to day to try to get by.

What do you think would have a bigger impact to help artists? Do you think it would be the tax credit, or amendments to the act?

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin

I'm unfortunately going to have to hold the answer to that question because you are out of time. You are always open, if it doesn't come through another question, to submit something in writing.

We are now going to Mr. Shields, please, for seven minutes.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I appreciate the witnesses being here. Every time we get a new panel there are things that we learn that hadn't come up before. Illustration Québec has 300 members, and some bring in about $15,000. That's $4.5 million.

Are they basically controlling the market? Is there more work that's contracted in Quebec from outside? Is the money leaving that the 300 aren't accessing? What is the market share of the 300? Do you have any idea?

5 p.m.

President, Illustration Québec

Julien Castanié

Quebec is the main market for Quebec illustrators. As I explained earlier, the Quebec market is demographically small. Quebec is a small francophone market. For example, a children's book printed in French will not have the same distribution as a children's book printed in English, which may be distributed in English-speaking Canada or the United States.

Our 300 members work mainly in Quebec, but the income they receive from this market isn't enough. They are forced to seek additional income elsewhere, including certain parts of English-speaking Canada, Europe and the United States. Foreign markets are more difficult to penetrate, particularly in the United States, where there is a form of protectionism. Even if, on paper, we can work for the whole world through the Internet, in reality, our market is mainly in the region where we live.