Canadian Heritage Committee on March 18th, 2019

[Hunter Tootoo, Independent, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I hope nobody's indifferent to doing it this way.

Thank you, Madam Chair and members of this committee, for the opportunity to speak in support of the amendments I proposed to the draft indigenous languages act.

Before I continue, I just want to note that I'm Inuk. I think everyone here knows that, but I do not speak my language, the language of my forefathers and ancestors, due to the history of discriminatory government policies referred to in the preamble of Bill C-91.

I believe that this bill, as currently drafted, is incomplete. It fails to take into account the unique geographic and linguistic situation of Inuit. The Inuit languages and dialects that make up Inuktitut were spoken on this continent long before the arrival of French or English, whose languages are now recognized as Canada's two official languages.

This year Canada celebrates the 50th anniversary of the Official Languages Act and intends to review and modernize it. It is entirely fitting, in my view, that this committee take the very important step of acknowledging the irony of excluding Inuktitut—the majority language in the vast northern Inuit regions known as Inuit Nunangat, which is probably close to a quarter of this country—from enjoying enhanced legal status similar to that of the two majority languages in southern Canada. The amendment I am proposing in clause 9.1 would lay the groundwork to begin addressing this exclusion.

The intent of the amendment is to allow, but not commit, the minister to go beyond the matters referred to in clause 9, which are restricted to negotiating indigenous language programs and service delivery, subject to as yet unknown terms and conditions. Under my proposed clause 9.1, the minister would be able to enter into an arrangement or agreement with provincial or territorial governments, indigenous governments or other indigenous governing bodies that goes beyond program and service delivery.

Clause 9.1 would allow the minister to further the promotion and the use of indigenous languages in light of the distinctiveness, the aspirations and the circumstances of indigenous people in a designated region or territory. This would encompass a large territory like Nunavut, where 84% of the population speaks Inuktitut, or a large region like Inuit Nunangat. Clause 9.1 would make it possible for the minister to negotiate the status in Canadian law of an indigenous language in such a region or territory. It would also be possible for the minister to do so incrementally.

Importantly, if adopted, this amendment would allow the minister to keep the dialogue open with our national Inuit organization, ITK, whose current views about the shortcomings of Bill C-91 are quite clearly on the record for this committee. In fact, I understand that the government members have been told to vote against an amendment that is being brought forward by Mr. Nantel, which reflects changes that would make Bill C-91 amenable to ITK. I can't underline enough the importance of continuing dialogue with ITK on the matter of protecting our Inuit language.

It was mentioned that this was co-developed. I think ITK and NTI have made it very clear that this piece of legislation was in no way co-developed with Inuit. ITK said it was negotiated in bad faith. In developing my amendment, I tried to find a way to put an olive branch out there, or a sign of good faith, for ongoing negotiations, which I understand is where the government wants to go.

I think that all committee members are very capable, as we've heard over the last few weeks, of making their own decisions. I look forward to that. I would encourage you all to do the right thing—support Inuit, support this amendment. I think that would show that this government is serious about what they're saying.

I also urge all committee members to consider carefully what I'm proposing and the consequences of moving forward with a bill that excludes Canada's oldest languages.

With that, Madam Chair, I'm prepared to respond to any questions that any committee members may have.

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Okay. I want to draw attention to the fact that it is 5:30. We had no end time for this meeting when it was posted, and we know that we have votes coming up much later, so no one is leaving here for a while in any event, so I do propose that we go through this. What I can do is see if there's a way to get food for people as part of it, and perhaps, after we consider this block, anyone who needs a short break can just run out of the room for a few minutes.

This is just so everyone has an idea of where we're at.

Mr. Nantel, do you have something to say about that?

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Yes, Madam Chair, and thank you for the very useful information about the extension of our meeting.

I'd like to thank Mr. Tootoo, because his exceptional contribution as an independent member brings a great deal to the scope and reach of this bill, aside from extending a hand to the entire community he speaks for here. I thank him very much, and we support this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Mr. Tootoo, did you have something to say to that?

[Hunter Tootoo, Independent, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Monsieur Nantel.

I think one point you made was on the scope of the bill. I understand going in and looking at developing an amendment. One of the concerns that the government had with the amendments that ITK put forward was that they didn't fall within the scope and mandate of the bill. I had some discussions with a lawyer to help me draft this, to try to put it forward in a way that fit within the scope and mandate of this bill. I believe that I've been able to do that with this amendment. I didn't want to cross a line with it, to come up to the line, and I think it's a good compromise as a potential win-win scenario. Neither side would be doing the happy dance, but it would put in place a mechanism in the legislation to allow both sides to get to where they want to go in the future.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Mr. Anandasangaree.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank Mr. Tootoo for all the work that he's done on this.

I would like to get some clarity from our deputy minister, Madam Chair, with respect to the amendments as proposed.

[Hélène Laurendeau]

First of all, I also want to echo the efforts being made in trying to bring the perspective of the Inuit into this bill.

There is a concern with the amendment as drafted, particularly in the part that talks about providing something that could be done either through an agreement or an arrangement between the federal government and a provincial government, which is fine, or an indigenous government for some things that refer to “all institutions of the provincial government”. I think we probably need to be careful in making sure that the federal legislation is not creating obligations on provinces directly.

That being said, I would also offer to the committee that many of the elements that are covered there are already covered in the current clause 8 and the current clause 9 of the bill, so I would urge the committee to think about not adding something that could actually create a bit of pressure within provincial or territorial institutions in a legislation that is purely federal.

Those would be my comments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Mr. Tootoo.

[Hunter Tootoo, Independent, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I know that in Nunavut and the NWT, Inuktitut is an official language. The amendment I am proposing talks about a region or a territory, and I think that's one of the things ITK was looking at in what they're trying to achieve with the goal of it, so it's not imposing it on a whole territory but it would be within a region.

The wording I put forward to the person I had draft this was much simpler than the legalese that came out of it, and I think you can all appreciate that. This is just consistent language with the existing legislation, which is why that's in there. Also, she said many of these things are included in the other clauses, but not all of them.

The main thing is that it does not take into account the unique geographic and linguistic situation of Inuit, or the distinctiveness and the aspirations of indigenous people, especially Inuit. I say Inuit, but the way I worded it, again, wasn't singling out any indigenous group. It was mentioned earlier that if we just put one in there it's going to exclude others. I was very careful to put it forward in a way that was inclusive and broad, which wouldn't exclude any possible group.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

We have Mr. Boissonnault, and then Mr. Shields.

[Randy Boissonnault]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Mr. Tootoo, thank you very much for your presentation on the new clause 9.1. I have to say, personally, that I do follow the logic of the department in that 9.1 would be redundant to clauses 8 and 9, and those powers would exist there, but I do notice that you talk about “an Indigenous language and the rights and privileges as to its use—in a province or a region”. I'm curious as to the intent of the rights that you're talking about. Is it your hope that Inuktitut would have federal official language status in Nunavut?

[Hunter Tootoo, Independent, Nunavut, NU]

I think the intent of this and the intent of what ITK was looking at, and also in discussions with the minister, was to find a way, in a region where it is the majority language spoken, that it could be considered an official language, but only within that region. Again, that is something yet to be negotiated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

I'll go to Mr. Shields, and then Mr. Boissonnault.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Tootoo, you referred to “a region or a territory”, but you haven't used the word “province”. I was wondering if that had been changed, but I think Mr. Boissonnault clarified that it was “in a province or a region”.

You haven't used the word “province”, so I was just making sure that I was dealing with the same piece here.

[Randy Boissonnault]

I'm not so sure, Mr. Shields, which is why I'll ask another question of Mr. Tootoo.

I didn't hear you say that, yes, the intent of the rights piece of this is to ensure that Inuktitut would have federal official language status in a region or subregion of a province where the majority speaks that language. By extension, if official language status would apply to Inuktitut in Nunavut, it would also apply in northern Quebec, and then we'd be looking at federal official language status in northern Quebec for people who speak the language there. That's what this would allow the minister to do.

Is that what you are seeking to have happen?

[Hunter Tootoo, Independent, Nunavut, NU]

It would allow the minister to negotiate with a group with its.... If ITK said they want it to be recognized in Nunavut, where 85% of it is, then they could negotiate or come to an agreement to allow that to happen. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be everywhere else, either. It would be up to that region to come to the table to negotiate with the minister if that's something they chose to do. It doesn't necessarily mandate that it has to be.

[Randy Boissonnault]

Thank you, Mr. Tootoo.

[Hunter Tootoo, Independent, Nunavut, NU]

I'm sorry—

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Yes, Mr. Tootoo?

[Hunter Tootoo, Independent, Nunavut, NU]

I know everybody's getting hung up, and the deputy minister, on the word “province”. That was something the lawyers put in there. They said it had to be like that. It doesn't mean that it's going to force it on all of them. My understanding from what the lawyers tell me is that it was just for consistency with the existing legislation. Again, the intent is within a region or territory, like Nunavut.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Okay.

Mr. Nantel, you have the floor.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I' d like to put a question to Mr. Tootoo with regard to the verbs that were chosen. In English, the amendment says “the minister may”. In French, the text says “le ministre peut conclure”. Would those verbs not suffice to reassure Mr. Boissonnault?

[Hunter Tootoo, Independent, Nunavut, NU]

I've been looking at and developing legislation for over 20 years now. Usually there are two words in there; it's either “shall” or “may”. When you use the word “shall”, it means you have to. When you use the word “may”, you don't have to. That's where I was making my point. One concern coming from the government was that it would be binding on them to do it, but if you put “may” in there, it's non-binding. They can do it if they want to. If everyone agrees that's where they want to go, then they can do that. It just allows a mechanism, in there, to get there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

All right.

This is on IND-2, which would create a new clause 9.1.