Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 25th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call the meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone.

Pursuant to a motion brought by Mr. Pierre Nantel, we are now going to have two hours with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. They are going to talk to us about their vision, their hopes, and their plans for the CBC.

Good morning and welcome, Monsieur Lacroix, Monsieur Lalonde, and Ms. Conway.

The usual way of presenting, although this is slightly different, is that we have 10 minutes for a presentation. After that there is a whole interactive question-and-answer period. In this instance we will suspend after Mr. Lacroix has shown a small video he is presenting as part of his presentation, in order for us to do some special programming that we're going to be seeing. Then we will come back again and finish the presentation.

Just so that everyone who is paying attention is very clear, that is what we're going to be doing.

We will begin.

[Hubert T. Lacroix, President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for inviting me to speak to you about the government's reinvestment in public broadcasting. Heather Conway, Louis Lalande and I have met with you before, so I'm very happy to see you and the committee members again.

Before I begin, let me offer just a word about the devices in front of you. They are virtual reality headsets. We've brought them here because they are an important part of a series of town halls that we have just launched in four communities to discuss the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women. I wanted you to see for yourselves what this technology means to the way we tell stories. I'll talk more about that in a moment.

The past few months have provided some remarkable examples of what public broadcasting can do.

In August we helped Canadians share a truly Canadian moment, the final concert of The Tragically Hip in Kingston, Ontario. Almost 12 million Canadians gathered together in backyards, town squares, bars, parks, and public places. In all, there were more than 190 community viewing parties here and all around the world. One Canadian actually told us that they listened to the concert on their phone while sitting in their car in Hawaii. Bringing Canadians together the way we did that night is exactly what the public broadcaster should do.

There were also the Olympics and Paralympics in Rio de Janeiro. Who can forget the emotions we all felt when Penny Oleksiak—the whole world now calls her Penny—won the bronze, the silver, another bronze, and finally, the gold. This 16-year-old swimmer alone won more medals than any other Canadian athlete in the history of the Summer Olympics. And how can we forget that friendly rivalry between André de Grasse and Usain Bolt, or the resilience of wrestler Erica Wiebe, winning gold after having failed to qualify for the 2012 Games, the world championships, and, last year, the Pan-Am games.

Thirty-two million people joined us in celebrating those moments—that's more than 91% of the population. And 10.1 million Canadians tuned in to our more than 700 hours of Paralympic coverage. Rio 2016 was the most watched Summer Olympics in Canadian history. We got more than 229 million total page views and nearly 37 million video views on our websites and Olympic apps. In addition, the public found a new way to experience the Games: for the first time, virtual reality allowed Canadians to immerse themselves into the action.

It's actually impressive technology, but we believe it can be so much more.

Many of you know about the leadership role that CBC/Radio-Canada has taken on the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women. CBC Radio's The Current is actually hosting a series of town halls on this subject to help people better understand this issue.

When they walk into the town hall, they first experience this story in virtual reality. It puts them on the side of Highway 16, the infamous Highway of Tears in northern British Columbia, the place where a number of indigenous women have been murdered or gone missing. This virtual reality documentary, a first for CBC, can be downloaded from our website.

The reaction to this presentation has been nothing short of incredible. In Prince George earlier this month, 200 people came out to experience it. Their town hall was then broadcast on The Current. Here is a bit of what they thought about it.

[Video presentation]

Madam Chair, with your permission, I would like to take a couple of minutes to let you experience it for yourself. Some of our staff are here to help you set it up. It's only four minutes long.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lacroix.

We will suspend, but I want to ask you not to keep your mikes open. Keep your mikes closed, please. In front of you, there is a transcript in French, because the virtual reality is in English only.

I will ask you to sit, as some people feel quite fragile when they are watching things. You think you are going to fall on your face, especially when you are above a certain level, and the chances are you just might, so please sit while you are doing this.

We will suspend, and everyone can start connecting to the virtual reality.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

We have some people who will help you and the members with the equipment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Please continue, Mr. Lacroix.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Thank you.

We believe this is what a public broadcaster should be doing: use whatever tools we can, together with great journalism and spectacular storytelling, to deepen Canadians' understanding, to help engage them in a conversation about important issues.

That is what our 2020 Strategy has been about.

Our transformation to become more digital, more local, and more Canadian has been challenging at times, but the main disruptions are now behind us, and our work is showing results.

We see it in the way Canadians now engage with us and each other on mobile devices, social networks, television and radio. We continue to transform our regional stations across the country to make them more open, mutli-platform environments. Halifax, Matane, Moncton and Sudbury are the most recent ones. We are providing more local content, more often and to more Canadians on every device they use.

Over 16 million Canadians now use our digital platforms each month—that's three million more in the last year alone. You know that our goal is to reach 18 million people by the year 2020. This is helping us build closer connections with Canadians.

We're not the only ones in the midst of a transformation. Last month, we hosted PBI 2016 in Montréal, a gathering of 60 public broadcasters from 52 countries around the world. It's clear that we're all facing the same challenges, but it's also clear that CBC/Radio-Canada is further ahead than many, and has taken a leadership role in this digital shift.

The government's reinvestment, announced in its 2016 budget, is helping us with this transformation. We are very grateful for that support. It's the first new investment in public broadcasting in over a decade. It represents an important vote of confidence in CBC/Radio-Canada, the value of our content, and our vision of the future.

When the government announced its reinvestment, it asked us to develop an accountability plan. We will be sharing that plan with Canadians soon, but first, let me tell you what we've been doing. It's worth bearing in mind that the government has promised us $75 million this year, and $150 in the coming years.

Here's what we're already doing with that investment.

We are creating new programs around Canada's 150th anniversary, programs like Becoming Canadian, a digital-first project celebrating the people who choose Canada as their new home.

We also created the program La grande traversée.

This has 10 people recreating the 1745 voyage from France to Quebec in a sailing replica.

This summer we created a new national radio show, Out in The Open, with Piya Chattopadhyay.

We started filming a six-part television drama, Alias Grace, based on the book by Margaret Atwood, in partnership with Netflix—a first for us.

We were able to protect funding for the one-hour indigenous radio program, Unreserved, with Rosanna Deerchild.

We created a new one-hour Canadian youth soccer drama, 21 Thunder, which will be airing next summer.

We started work on a new radio station in London, Ontario, previously suspended because of budget cuts.

We created additional digital content for ICI Tou.tv and seven additional programs for Vero.tv, the new web TV channel on ICI Tou.tv EXTRA.

We've launched a new project called Next Generation—a space to experiment with new ways of enriching and sharing news and current affairs content, to be created and managed by millennials, talking to millennial

We created five additional one-hour episodes of the popular Maritimes television talk-talk show Méchante soirée, produced in Moncton.

We've added 15 hours of new weekday evening content on ICI Radio-Canada Première, replacing reruns.

This is just a sample. We will be reporting to Canadians on our progress on this and on all of our goals through our corporate plan and annual reports.

We're very proud of what we've been able to do to support Canadian culture. We believe a strong public broadcaster is at the heart of a strong cultural ecosystem. We look forward to showing Canadians what we can do with a reinvestment in public broadcasting.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

We begin. I want to introduce Monsieur Nantel, whose motion has allowed us to do this two-hour session.

We'll start now with a seven-minute question-and-answer session. The seven minutes include both the questions and the answers.

We begin with Monsieur Breton.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Lacroix. I also thank Ms. Conway and Ms. Lalande for being with us this morning.

In your presentation, you covered several subjects, some of which are very important. The government is very proud of its reinvestment in CBC/Radio-Canada, an institution we strongly believe in. You spoke of $75 in investments this year, and $150 for the next four years.

My question is about local content.

How will the money be invested to benefit our communities across the country? It's an important element of our study, and we appreciate having you with us to talk about it. How will you be able to measure whether there's been an increase in local content in the short-term and medium-term?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

As you know, Mr. Breton, our 2020 plan had three priorities.

One of them was to add local content. We understand that Canadians are asking for this. They are constantly repeating that they want to understand their communities better and connect their communities with the challenges facing the provinces, Canada, and ultimately, the entire world.

By listening to Canadians, we've also worked to ensure that we can measure how the new regional sites—because much of the investment is in digital—attract their interest.

I will let Louis Lalande explain how the CBC invests this money in the regions. After that, Heather Conway will let you know how we support that priority.

[Louis Lalande, Executive Vice-President, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]

Thank you, Mr. Lacroix.

Plan 2020 has three components.

The first is to provide support for the digital shift that is under way, especially with respect to local news. In the consultations that the CBC regularly holds throughout the country, we noticed that local news is an issue Canadians regularly raise. They are asking for local news, seven days a week, and not just in the morning, noon or evening. Accordingly, we must expand this content, and that's what we've done in Plan 2020, and are continuously strengthening. To ensure this objective is achieved as it should be, part of the money will be allocated to this content.

The second component is in line with the second wish expressed during the consultations. Although news is important, the CBC needs to reflect other dimensions of life in communities, especially in the regions. Therefore, this second component is to offer programming options on the radio, on TV and on digital platforms, to broaden audiences' areas of interest.

The third and last component is to ensure that, for the major national initiatives, there are representatives throughout the country presenting national issues that emerge from the regions. This is why we have national correspondents in all the country's major regions. They ensure that regional issues are better reflected in our programming as a whole, in news, on the radio and in digital formats.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Heather, what would you add on the CBC side with respect to reinvestment in the regions?

[Heather Conway, Executive Vice-President, English Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]

It would be roughly the same level of priorities as Louis. The 2020 plan did call for a digital-first approach in local programming, and we continue to invest in that. We continue to invest in providing people with 18 hours a day of constantly updated information locally.

Like Louis, we are also looking at the role that CBC plays in our communities as a catalyst for having the conversations that people want to have in their communities, with initiatives like Matt Galloway doing a series on carding in Toronto, or issues like missing and murdered indigenous women, or talking about issues of importance to specific communities and having CBC act as either the catalyst for creating a town hall or having the conversation and inviting people in to do a panel—those kinds of initiatives.

We will also be looking to increase our investment in non-news programming over the coming years, because again, as Louis said, people do want to see their communities reflected and see what's happening in their culture scene, in the arts scene, and in other parts of their communities.

You will also know that in particular we had a program to extend CBC radio stations into communities that did not have them and had expressed an interest in them. The first one of those that we announced was for London, Ontario, and we are proceeding with that. We have selected a space, and it's a public library space that we'll be sharing, again in order to ensure we're a place where the community can gather. We'll hope to do more of that.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you.

It goes without saying that we have to talk money at this meeting.

There's an element that comes back often. You're undoubtedly aware that advertising revenues have nearly been halved over the last two or three years. They've dropped from $500 million to $250 million. One can assume the Internet reduced these revenues. That's what I suspect, and you'll be able to confirm it to us.

How will the Corporation counter the effects of declining ad revenues? The money involved is substantial.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

You are well aware of the challenges our public broadcaster is facing. Specifically, and this is happening to all other conventional television broadcasters, our advertising revenues are migrating to other platforms—primarily digital ones—and our business models are feeling the impact.

Faced with these challenges, we have reinvented CBC/Radio-Canada to prioritize digital. Our websites, radio and television are being reinvented around the new priorities, which enables us to reduce our costs, be even more efficient, and use our existing digital platforms to counter the revenue reduction. We're doing our part to maximize the value of our content.

The main objective of our efforts is to constantly offer Canadians the services they say they want. On both the CBC and Radio-Canada sides, we stay in touch with our audiences and take account of what they ask us through our various consultations. The goal is to deliver our services to our Canadian viewers and listeners in the best way possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Monsieur Breton.

Now we go to Mr. Van Loan and Mr. Maguire, who will be sharing their time.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

There are some critics of the CBC who say that it fails to be and should become more of a genuine public broadcaster. When they say this, they mean that it should focus more on things like Canadian art, music and performances by Canadian performers, Canadian films and theatre, and programs of a documentary nature that would focus on things like Canadian geography and Canadian history.

Their suggestion is that the CBC should try less to emulate mainstream broadcasters, that news is not a comfortable fit for a publicly subsidized broadcaster, and that sitcoms and dramas that seek to compete with private sector broadcasters are not really a genuine fit for a public broadcaster.

What is your response to those critics?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

I'll have Heather tell you about how she has, in the time she has been with us, reinvented the arts piece in what you described, and how that fits in the overall mandate of CBC.

[Heather Conway]

Thanks, Hubert.

We have invested in arts programming. We have created a number of digital arts properties. We have also invested in documentary programming with a program called Firsthand. We continue to support programs such as The Nature of Things, which is documentary programming that often focuses on wilderness and the wonder of Canada's geography and history.

I do believe that public broadcasters have a mandate that is different from other broadcasters. I would also argue, however, that comedy is a deeply cultural product. There is a Canadian sense of humour, and Canadians like to see it reflected on the CBC. There are very few places for political satire or shows like Kim's Convenience, which, we hope, is a new hit for us—it's doing very well so far—and Baroness von Sketch, an all-female comedy troupe.

Comedies and dramas are places where Canadians can see what Canadian creators have to offer, and if it's not the public broadcaster, there really isn't a lot of space on the private sector broadcasters' schedules in prime time for any of that.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Another set of critics, some of whom we've had here, have said that it is inappropriate for a public broadcaster, whose public subsidy is premised on the notion of limited bandwidth—and you have a space there—to use that public subsidy to compete on the Web.

These critics were specifically referring to news broadcasting, where you are collecting both advertising and public subsidy and competing with other news outlets, which say they are having real trouble surviving in making that transition.

What is your response to those critics? We've heard from many of them here, from all ends of the marketplace.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

I think we have to remember what the mandate is. The mandate is to provide Canadians with a wide range of programming that informs, enlightens, and entertains. In 2016, Canadians expect us to deliver on that mandate on whichever device they're watching, at whatever time they're watching, and in whatever environment they're living.

We don't think that we compete. We seek to service Canadians with the dollars that we receive from government in this mixed model of funding that we have, which right now has us going after some commercial revenues, including advertising revenues, to make all of these services available to Canadians. There is nothing in the act or in our mandate that prevents us from delivering these services to Canadians in the most effective way—on the contrary.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Maguire, go ahead.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much for your presentation.

Last time I was here, I asked a question about getting a breakdown in writing from you of the CBC employees who are directly involved, on a day-to-day basis, in creating, writing, producing, and editing some of the local news. I was informed that CBC wouldn't supply that information to the committee.

As we are trying to map out the gaps in local news currently found in Canada, it makes it very difficult to do that if we don't know where the employee footprint of CBC is. I just wonder whether you would assist our committee and task your organization to provide that breakdown of how many CBC employees are directly involved in local news, broken down by media platform and by province.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

I'll ask Louis and Heather to chime in, in a second.

We don't think that way. We'd be happy to tell you how many employees we have in each of the places of business of CBC/Radio-Canada; that's an easy one. However, we don't segregate these platforms in that way. There is no such thing, in 2016, as one of our journalists being assigned only to a particular platform or to a particular kind of news. Everybody participates in the delivery of the information. As you've seen us do now, we refresh our web pages eight to 12 times an hour. We try to push out information that is relevant to Canadians on a regular basis as that information happens.

The concept that we have these broken-down silos in CBC/Radio-Canada is a thing of the past. That is not the way we do our business every day. It's not the way we deliver the news to Canadians, and it's not the approach that we take in our business.

Heather and Louis, do you want to add to that?

[Heather Conway]

I think that's a fair statement. I do appreciate that every community—and we do hear from them—wants more. Everybody wants more local news. Everybody wants more coverage of their issues and their community. We have to make choices with the resources we have.

In particular for eastern Ontario, if that's the area of concern you're particularly interested in, I think that as we bring London on board as a radio and a digital station, that will free up some resources to focus more on eastern Ontario, on the Kingston-Peterborough area, but it's always going to be a set of choices.

Of course, events of the day drive how you allocate those resources. Is there something newsworthy happening here? Is there something more newsworthy happening over there? It's often just a series of choices that aren't something that we particularly focus on. It's something that our editorial teams and assignment teams focus on.