Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 16th, 2017

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I'm going to be sharing my time with Julie Dzerowicz. There's not a lot of time, so I'm going to ask my question to Dr. Doobay.

We received ample evidence several weeks ago that hate crimes are on the increase for many different communities, including the indigenous, the black population, and the Jewish and Muslim communities. In the Muslim community there's a 61% increase over the course of one year. I find that extremely troubling. I'm going to go to you, doctor, for advice. What can we do as a government to address this trend?

[Dr. Budhendranauth Doobay]

Thank you.

The onus should not be on government alone. The onus should be on the communities, as I have alluded to. The onus should be on the communities not to ghettoize themselves and to absorb people around them.

We are new. Those who have been here five generations are no longer new, but we are new. When we are new and we come here, we want people to understand who we are and that we are here for one thing: to work in peace and harmony. To do this, you have to involve the people in the community—neighbours, citizens, the mayor, the town council, the member of Parliament—and let them get to know you. When we do not ghettoize ourselves and we expose ourselves to everyone, they all understand that we are human beings just like them. We eat the same food, wear the same clothes, and have the same objectives. We may worship differently; that's about it. However, when we ghettoize ourselves, we raise the ire of people around us.

There are questions to raise about what government can do. Government in its wisdom can encourage this sort of thing by encouraging people of different faiths to get together and by letting them know that they can't bring the old ways of the old country here to do their own wars, whatever country they come from.

We have to know that we come to Canada. Why do we come here? Because we get a good life. Therefore, we must thank the government, work with the government, and come together. I mentioned the Aga Khan projects and so on. These are some people who are bringing people together. We can't want government to do everything for us.

The worst wars are religious wars. You know that, right? Whether you shake your head or not, the worst wars are caused by religion. Again I want to say that if a community is mostly Hindu or mostly Muslim and we pander to them, we cause lots of difficulties. The communities have to work together, and government should try to see if they can encourage that. That's what I think.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thanks, Dan.

Julie, you have three minutes left.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much.

I'm going to direct my questions first to Mr. Bennett and then to Mr. Doobay.

I'm going to follow along the lines of what my colleague, Ms. Kwan, was saying. I too agree that in this country there is long-standing systemic racism and discrimination. One of the additional comments that I found interesting and that I agree with is that we each have our own biases.

This was not the first time it was mentioned. I believe one of the leaders of the black legal community mentioned this as well. He said that you have to put that on the table when you're trying to come up with a game plan around a whole-of-government approach in trying to reduce or eliminate systemic racism and religious discrimination.

I'm trying to think about that. What additional things might we consider doing to take into account our own biases when we're trying to come up with this approach?

[Dr. Andrew P.W. Bennett]

Very briefly, I think government can lead by example. Government can recognize, as parliamentarians, as leaders in the public service, that if you have a different view, that's perfectly acceptable. You have a right to hold that view.

For example, Cardus, the think tank that I work with is, broadly speaking, a Christian think tank. Three of us who work there are Catholics, and then I have a lot of colleagues who are reformed Protestants or Calvinists. As a Catholic, I think Calvinists have a pretty wacky theology and I think they are wrong on certain points, but I recognize that they bear a human dignity. We work together and have a wonderful working relationship in trying to do good for this country, just as members of Parliament do, but in that environment we are able to engage, to disagree, and to have a way to work together.

I think that within Parliament, within our government, or within the public service, often people feel that they can't disagree or that they have to subscribe to a particular view in order to feel accepted within society. That's not a good trend. We have to foster difference. After all, Parliament comes from the French parler, so people have to be free to speak. That example can extend throughout our country.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Would you comment, Mr. Doobay?

[Dr. Budhendranauth Doobay]

I agree with my friend here, but I feel that we must start at home with our children. A lot of things come from the children at home, even though we think we can settle everything in Parliament. We have to let people understand that we can't teach our children to hate and to grow up like that.

I come back to the old thing of ghettoizing, when we teach the children to hate and to discriminate. As you said, we all have our biases. Every one of us has our biases, even God. We must teach our children from home. This is difficult to do. You may say, “Oh, okay, I will tell them to be this way.” You can't. As you know, these biases come deep. They start with the children, who then grow up.

We must try to educate, involve, communicate, and absorb people, not separate ourselves. Absorb people to let them know who we are. This is the only way it can be solved. Government can't solve these things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Doobay, Dr. Bennett, and Ms. Hassan, for coming and for presenting your ideas and your thoughts to us. This is all adding to the pool of thoughts that we ourselves are developing in terms of our recommendations. I want to thank you for taking the time, and I would entertain—

Mr. Reid?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

I have one last thing before you entertain a motion to adjourn, which I will be happy to move in a second.

I just wanted to thank you for allowing us to run a bit over time to allow the witnesses to be heard. I very much appreciated that, and I suspect other MPs did as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

I will give a motion to adjourn now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The meeting is adjourned.