Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 1st, 2021

[Martin Théberge]

I will let Mrs. Morin finish my comments but I would suggest that the answer in this case is practically the same as the answer to the previous question. It is discoverability, to which one could add distribution. People no longer watch television as we did in the past. So we have to find a way to make that content accessible.

[Marie-Christine Morin]

Of course, you are alluding to all the tax changes that have to be made because of those players. We have to make sure that the rules of the game are the same.

The bill does not solve all those issues, although they were brought up in the Yale report. I feel that the intent is to settle some of them in other bills to come.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much.

I have one last question for you.

This modernization of the Broadcasting Act is actually likely to bring about a number of positive changes for the Canadian cultural industry. As you see it, how do those in the French-language cultural sector outside Quebec view the new act?

[Martin Théberge]

As I said in my opening statement, we did a lot of very good work with anglophone partners in Quebec and across Canada and we cast our net wide. Nothing indicates any animosity or any comments contrary to those we are putting forward.

We recognize that players such as ourselves have a unique and specific realities. That does not seem to be a problem. The consensus and collaboration actually seems to be very strong.

[Marie-Christine Morin]

Let me quickly add two points to the answer.

The first concern is that we are not specifically named in the bill. As Mr. Théberge said, some very good collaborative work was done precisely in order to reach a consensus on this issue. Clearly, it must be solved because there is specific concern about it.

From what we hear on the ground in the francophone arts and culture sector in Canada, there is a recognition of what this legislation means for cultural sovereignty and for access to culture in French all across the country. What you are preparing to do in modernizing the act is crucial for the long-term survival of the French language and of all our artistic and cultural ecosystems.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much.

My next question goes to the representatives of the Quebec English-language Production Council.

English-language production is a significant part of Quebec's audiovisual industry, but we know that the sector has seen a drop in its funding for several years.

In your opinion, what steps are necessary in the long term to help English-language production in Quebec be more competitive with the major players in the industry?

Please provide a short answer.

[Eva Ludvig]

Kenneth.

[Kenneth Hirsch]

I left the film board about 20 years ago to set up in the private sector. At that time English-language production in Quebec represented about one-quarter of production across the country. Now we represent less than 7% of English-language content production across the country. If regulation is not in place, the broadcasters, who are mostly based in Toronto, just don't think about us. We're a diverse and a distinct community, and in order to ensure the vitality of our production community, we need to see that recognized in Bill C-10.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Bessette.

Mr. Champoux, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for joining us.

Mrs. Morin, Mr. Théberge, it's always a pleasure to see you.

Let me start with you, Ms. Messier. Earlier, we talked about the tech giants, who will also have to contribute to the production of content one of these days.

Could we talk about how you would proceed and about the model you would advocate for distributing the additional money to be collected from the tech giants for production?

Do you have a model in mind? Do you have an idea of the way in which that money could be fairly redistributed?

[Hélène Messier]

It is difficult to answer that question because it's the CRTC that will decide how that money will be distributed. Of course, I hope that French-language production will receive its fair share.

The francophone music industry has about 40% of the funding in Canada. Generally, institutions like Telefilm Canada or the Canada Media Fund have to make do with one third of the funding. I don't see why that should remain as it is.

It will certainly depend on the type of platform. If we are talking about platforms that are aimed more to a francophone market, I imagine that the requirements will be greater. For traditional broadcasters, we are asking that 75% of their production be in French.

For the tech giants, I would really like their requirements to be a minimum of 40% or even 50% of the amounts, the expenditures, we require of them, for example. It is true that French-language production in a minority setting is in a unique situation, but all French-language production in the same ecosystems as the tech giants is in a difficult situation.

Production in Quebec is too. For example, current production budgets for a drama series are less than $500,000 per hour whereas English-language production can count on a budget that easily averages around $2 million.

So it is already uneven. With our current budgets, it is difficult for us to take our place and to attract public attention. So it is important for original French-language production to be funded adequately.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Of course, the CRTC has to regulate it, but don't you think that we should write provisions into the act that would better guide the CRTC towards the criteria that we want to impose, so that they cannot be revised up or down on a whim in the next few years?

[Hélène Messier]

I've studied the legislation passed in France, Spain and Australia. I've looked at just about every model. The challenging thing about the Canadian Broadcasting Act is the difference in the players. There are traditional players and new players. Of the new platforms, some are Canadian and some are foreign. Some platforms are aimed at a more French-speaking market, and others at a more English-speaking market. It's quite difficult to establish quotas directly in the legislation, as was done in France. Of course, it would be reassuring, because the CRTC is given a great deal of power. As a result, we believe that it's imperative to remind the CRTC, through the objectives of the act, of the importance of French-language original content. This would ensure that the CRTC allocates a significant portion to French-language original content and that it adapts this content to the style of service.

What you're talking about would be possible. However, in my opinion, it would require a complete reworking of the bill to create very specific categories of players based on the market, the amount of revenue, and so on. It would be a complex and unprecedented process. This system wasn't chosen for legislative implementation. Instead, the CRTC was given the opportunity to tailor its regulations to the market players.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Do you think that a reward system for the best players in the field—the top students—could be effective?

[Hélène Messier]

In what way?

Who would be the top students? Are you talking about incentives for broadcasters?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Yes. That's exactly right. Those who produce more would see their portion increased according to the surplus that they produce.

[Hélène Messier]

I don't know about that. We must see how this would be addressed in the act. As I said, for the new players, it would be possible to develop something very specific that imposes obligations that are a little more restrictive than what already exists. It would be a new way of thinking for the Canadian legislator.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you.

I'll speak briefly to the FCCF representatives.

In your opinion, Mr. Théberge or Mrs. Morin, how can we establish the right proportion of language representation in official language minority communities?

Do you know what type of model we could use to ensure this representation, by including criteria directly in the act?

[Marie-Christine Morin]

I agree with my colleague. It would be somewhat difficult to include quotas in the act. In any event, it would perhaps be a little too rigid, since the legislation isn't often amended.

In our opinion, it would be beneficial to clearly state the legislator's intention for the representation of French-language content that also comes from official language minority communities. The criteria established by the CRTC could then reflect this. It would be difficult to give you very specific criteria.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mrs. Morin.

We'll go to Ms. McPherson, for six minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all of our witnesses for joining us today. This is very interesting.

Similar to all of my colleagues I'm sure, I have had many meetings about Bill C-10, and I'm excited that we're starting the process of looking at it.

I represent the riding of Edmonton Strathcona. Many of you may not know, but in Alberta, it is one of our strongest francophone communities, one of the strongest OLMCs we have in Alberta, and a very important part of my riding.

I want to ask some questions of the FCCF, Mr. Théberge and Madame Morin. I know we've talked about this already, but I want to give you a bit of an opportunity to expand. You spoke about the importance, from your perspective, of the bill, ensuring that broadcasters, online or not, promote the French original content, especially in our linguistic minority communities.

Can you talk a bit more about how that could happen?

Madame Morin.

[Marie-Christine Morin]

We recommend an explicit reference to language minority communities in section 3, which lists the objectives of the act. Our proposal stems directly from recommendation 53 in the Yale report, which seeks to update the set of objectives arising from the act and to make an explicit reference to OLMCs. I'm saying “explicit reference” because, according to a fairly simple principle, if you aren't identified, you don't really exist.

The legislator's intent in this regard must be clarified. To this end, we'll be proposing a very clear amendment that refers to us, so that there's no hiding behind the words “ethnocultural backgrounds”, which are currently in the bill. This is really about giving special consideration to language communities.

As I said earlier, this legislation is important to us. It allows for cultural sovereignty and the development of French-language culture across the country. This aspect is particularly important for our groups. This legislation is important for the survival of the language and cultural identity across the country.

[Martin Théberge]

I want to quickly add that we mustn't forget that the review of this act will affect several other legislative reviews and many future decisions. It's important to set an example, to clearly state the goal and to identify, as my colleague Mrs. Morin said, the OLMCs as stakeholders in the ecosystem.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Wonderful.

Can I assume then that our representatives from the Quebec English-language Production Council would also agree with that explicit naming within the act?