Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 22nd, 2021

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for joining us today. It's a pleasure to see the ones we have already met once again.

I would first like to turn to Mr. Pelletier and Ms. Cyr on the specific topic of paragraph 3(1)(f) in the act.

Earlier, my colleague Mr. Rayes talked about a decrease in creative resources.

Paragraph 3(1)(f) in the act was quite important because it was relatively firm as to the obligation of broadcasters and producers to make use of resources in Quebec and Canada in order to produce content.

Could you explain how reducing that requirement, which could be a consequence of the bill as proposed, could well harm the cultural industry in Quebec and Canada?

[Mylène Cyr]

Earlier, I quoted some quite significant figures about the decrease in Canadian production for the services that are becoming more and more of a factor.

According to paragraph 3(1)(f) of the act, broadcasting undertakings are to make predominant use of Canadian creative resources. The bill no longer provides for that possibility.

In our view, it is clear that the objective of using Canadian resources predominantly can ensure that original Canadian productions are made. We feel that it is important to give creators here all the room they need to tell our stories to Canadians.

In our opinion, it is very important, it is even a priority, to keep the paragraph as it is at present.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Given that extremely powerful digital players will most likely be wielding great influence in the market, how did you see the reworking of that paragraph, which should have been strengthened rather than weakened?

What do you feel about the change that the bill is proposing?

[Gabriel Pelletier]

We feel that Bill C-10 opens the door too wide and gives too much flexibility to foreign platforms in particular. The current version of the act has an objective of using Canadian talent predominantly. We would like that to be included in the bill.

By giving too much flexibility to the foreign platforms, we are afraid that they will not use our local talent, that they will have fewer obligations in that regard, and they will make do with a simple financial contribution. The important thing for us is to have our creators, actors, writers and producers working. Basically, we want Canadian talent to be used. We want to see that put back into the amended version of the act.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I imagine there are voice actors too.

[Gabriel Pelletier]

Exactly. Our entire industry depends on the jobs, the creative contribution and the intellectual property it will generate.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Generally speaking, the industry is looking for this bill to be passed quickly. The Broadcasting Act has needed to be updated for a number of years. We want the bill to be passed, but at what cost? What are the compromises you are prepared to make?

Let me ask the question differently. If you had to vote on this bill, what would be the absolute prerequisites for your support?

[Gabriel Pelletier]

First, we are in favour of the bill and I feel that we said that clearly when we started. We have some fears and we want it to have more teeth. As francophone creators, our biggest fear is that it does not provide adequate protection for the jobs of creators, both francophone and anglophone, and also for content in French. Original production in French is our greatest concern.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much.

Now I would like to ask Ms. Creighton one or two questions.

Ms. Creighton, a few weeks ago, we discussed the sharing of the funding for TV productions. At the moment, one third goes to French-language production and two-thirds to English-language production. You were not opposed to the idea of revisiting that funding model.

French-language productions are underfunded. Producing half an hour of content in French gets much less of a budget than English-language productions. What would constitute an equitable share in any new model that could be adopted?

[Valerie Creighton]

Mr. Champoux, our conversation earlier was quite interesting.

I want to start, and then I'm going to turn it over to Nathalie Clermont for a little more detail.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I'm not sure that we have time for that, Ma'am. I apologize, but go ahead.

[Valerie Creighton]

All right.

Yes, we are certainly open to it, and what would be fair, I think, is to have a discussion once the new program is developed. We know there's been some discussion to equalize it with the music industry, which would be 40%. Right now we're confined by the conditions of the contribution agreement, but we're certainly open to discussion. There's great opportunity for French market content all over the world. Language is no longer a barrier. This provides a huge opportunity for our French market creators.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Creighton.

We have a lot to tell each other but little time in which to do so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you very much.

Before we go to the next question, folks, I hope I can get your blessing to extend by not a full 10 minutes but up to 10 minutes. That's if we want to do a full second round.

I'm seeing a lot of nodding. Is there any dissension on that? Otherwise, I can't do a second round for all four parties without any fairness.

Thank you.

Madam McPherson, you have six minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses for being here today. It's an important conversation, as we try very hard to make sure Bill C-10, as legislation, is as strong as it possibly can be.

It's lovely to see you, Ms. Creighton. As somebody who is also in the Prairies and dealing with the deep freeze to the balmy weather, I hope I also can manage that swift change.

You referred to a number of recent shows in your remarks, such as Schitt's Creek, which of course we all love, as an “unprecedented success” in showcasing Canadian stories and talent to the world through shows made in Canada by producers, broadcasters and the CMF. I'm wondering what in the current system contributed to that success, and how Bill C-10 is responsive to that. Otherwise put, how can we make sure that Bill C-10 builds on what we've done properly, with this unprecedented success, and that we don't unintentionally hinder that success?

[Valerie Creighton]

Schitt's Creek is a really good example. I am told by the producers of that content that they shopped the idea all over the U.S., and there was absolutely no pickup for it. The CBC came in with the production community. It was developed. It got off to a bit of a rocky start, and then by season two, it was well on its way. We all know what happened. Netflix then picked it up. The distribution in the U.S. made it a phenomenal success with all those awards.

The Canadian system needs an increased focus on our IP. I envision a day where we have enough money at the CMF to support development and production, which would help those content makers retain their rights as they go into the market. If there's a Canadian distribution entity, great. If not, at least, when they are going out to bargain on their content, they are in a much stronger position.

We hear of shows that are developed all the time in the country and then sold to Netflix. Netflix acquires all the rights. A recent show, Warrior Nun, was the top show on Netflix in 168 countries last summer. It was developed here by a production company. Unfortunately, that company doesn't participate in the back end of that show or was able to retain the rights, just because of the way the system has developed.

There are two things: IP retention and, of course, the money. If there's more money, we can strengthen our Canadian system: our creators, our writers, our actors, our directors. We can ensure development and production gets made in this country. We know we can take it to the market and be successful.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'll ask some questions about the content industry, and how it's been affected by COVID-19. There are, obviously, encouraging signs in my home province of Alberta, as production comes back with health and safety protocols in place.

What impacts has COVID-19 had on the production industry? What does that mean for our consideration of Bill C-10?

[Valerie Creighton]

Like every industry, the impacts at the beginning were devastating. Everything just ground to a halt. At the CMF, we had 1,500 projects that were shut down immediately.

We were very fortunate that with the government's emergency relief program, we distributed $120 million to the industry in over 10 days. That kept the door open. It kept people employed, and it allowed at least the structure to remain intact.

As the government brought in the short-term compensation fund, that guarantee of having a back-stop in the event that production had to go down enhanced the acceleration of content going into production. We've seen it in Alberta. There were some large series like Kim's Convenience and Murdoch Mysteries that were able to start earlier, because they had insurance packages previously that covered issues like the pandemic.

Yes, you're absolutely right, Ms. McPherson, production has geared back up. It's slow. We, anecdotally, know it will be less than last year. One of the concerns is ensuring we support development, so that the pipeline keeps moving forward.

The pandemic really pinpointed the fragility and weaknesses in our Canadian system. It started with the digital revolution. When the streamers came into the country, that accelerated the pressure downwards. COVID has now shone a light on the cracks in the Canadian system. The bill will do a great deal to strengthen it, and ensure that we can leverage the success of the past.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I don't have very much time left. Maybe on my second round, I'll come back to touch on this further, but, Mr. Wente, I have a quick question.

Do you feel, in the development of Bill C-10, there was adequate consultation with first nations, Métis and Inuit peoples?

[Jesse Wente]

There was some, but it wasn't particularly robust. We were a relatively new agency at the time. We take our position based on advocacy, research and consultation that has occurred over the last 20 years. Much of the answers have not changed.

Our responses were very much a reflection of that. We approach consultation as an ongoing everyday sort of activity. This process didn't exactly mirror that, but perhaps that is a little too ambitious. More consultation, with a broader range of communities, is always appreciated.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Wente.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. Aitchison, go ahead, for five minutes.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm excited that we got to round two.

I'm excited to chat with Ms. Creighton again. I had a great visit with her. As for Jesse Wente, I'm a huge fan, so I'm a little star-struck right now. Please don't be offended.

My first question is for Ms. Creighton.

I've been reading through the Broadcasting Act at 20 different meetings or more, I guess, with different groups. I've been collating all the suggested amendments to the Broadcasting Act in Bill C-10 and trying to understand it. Of course, our objective, as so many have said, is to make sure that our stories are told and that Canadians can access those stories. We obviously need to make improvements in terms of which Canadians are telling those stories. We want to make sure that all Canadians are.

My fear, of course, is that I wonder if what we've done here with Bill C-10 is to slightly regulate the online streamers, while keeping our fairly strict regulations on traditional broadcast media—the BDUs. I wonder if that isn't in fact really the beginning of the end as we transition away from this technology. Is traditional media in this country dead or dying?

[Valerie Creighton]

Are you asking me?

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Yes.