Evidence of meeting #16 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was content.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Nadia Stewart  Journalist and Executive Director, Canadian Association of Black Journalists
Erin Haskett  President and Executive Producer, Lark Productions, Canadian Media Producers Association
Damon D'Oliveira  Partner, Conquering Lion Pictures Inc., Canadian Media Producers Association
Reynolds Mastin  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Media Producers Association
Sherien Barsoum  Co-Founder, Racial Equity Media Collective
Amar Wala  Co-Founder and Producer, Racial Equity Media Collective
Gabriel Pelletier  President, Association des réalisateurs et réalisatrices du Québec
Mylène Cyr  Executive Director, Association des réalisateurs et réalisatrices du Québec
Valerie Creighton  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Media Fund
Jesse Wente  Executive Director, Indigenous Screen Office

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Welcome back everyone to our ongoing study of Bill C-10.

Just by way of a quick announcement, if anyone encounters an issue with simultaneous interpretation, please flag it immediately to the chair. If you cannot listen to the conversation in the language of your choice, either English or French, please let us know by waving as soon as you can so that way we can fix it as soon as possible. Keep in mind that we have to have interpretation in order to proceed.

Speaking of which, we have everybody online with the exception of Mr. Rayes. Right now we're having some technical difficulties with his connection. We'll get to that a little bit later. We're working with IT at the moment.

In the meantime, I want to welcome our guests today. From the Canadian Association of Black Journalists, we have Nadia Stewart, journalist and executive director. From the Canadian Media Producers Association, we have Reynolds Mastin, president and CEO; Erin Haskett, president and executive producer for Lark Productions; and Damon D'Oliveira, partner with Conquering Lion Pictures Incorporated. In our third group, from the Racial Equity Media Collective, we have Sherien Barsoum, co-founder, and Amar Wala, director and producer.

Guests, we give each of you five minutes to do your presentation. I'll let you hand it back and forth if you wish, but we're going to start with five minutes for Madam Nadia Stewart, Canadian Association of Black Journalists.

Ms. Stewart, please.

11 a.m.

Nadia Stewart Journalist and Executive Director, Canadian Association of Black Journalists

Thank you very much, Mr. Simms.

On January 28, 2020, the Canadian Association of Black Journalists issued a call to action. Joining forces with Canadian Journalists of Colour, we released a document outlining seven steps this industry must take in order to improve—

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Ms. Stewart, I apologize for interrupting.

I forgot to remind everyone that if you're not using a headset that is directly to your mouth, like the normal headset, if you're only using the typical Apple.... Do you have an actual mike? We need to get you closer to the microphone, Ms. Stewart.

For others who are using the typical Apple headset, please lift your microphone closer to the mouth so that interpretation can hear you fully.

You have my apologies for the interruption, Ms. Stewart, please go ahead again.

11 a.m.

Journalist and Executive Director, Canadian Association of Black Journalists

Nadia Stewart

As we mentioned then, there has not been research on Canadian newsroom demographics since the mid-2000s. This should serve as a testament to how much this industry has been held accountable when it comes to racial equity. The only statistics I can point to today are from a decade ago, and they're abysmal. Among news managers of media outlets in the greater Toronto area, researchers from Ryerson University found only 4.8% of media leaders identified as visible minorities.

Racialized journalists were also under-represented among columnists, photographers, hosts and even experts. This is the same problem that has existed since the Canadian Association of Black Journalists, CABJ for short, was first founded in 1996. One of the organization's founding members, Hamlin Grange, said, “The sad fact is that though our skin colour makes us highly visible among journalists, we are all but invisible in Canadian newsrooms.” What was true then is still true today.

After the calls to action were released last January, the response we received came largely from other journalists and independent digital start-ups, the kinds of forward-thinking media companies advancing the conversation around diversity, equity and inclusion in media, but from establishment media—CBC, Corus Entertainment, CTV and others—there was no response, not one. There was nothing from the major players in print journalism either. In fact, we would not hear anything from the mainstream media until June 2020. That is when suddenly the industry woke up, unable to continue ignoring anti-Black racism in the wake of George Floyd's murder. Suddenly our organization was engaged in conversations with media companies across the industry about what change really looks like.

In case you missed it, Black journalists have been speaking for decades, sharing the painful truths of what life has been like for them in this industry, the covert and overt racism, the mountain of microaggressions and the unacceptable use of the N-word in newsrooms by their own co-workers. Even though these stories have surfaced, even though our organization and others are speaking, there remains a deep concern that, unless more meaningful measures are taken, nothing will truly change. This is an industry with a long history of lip service but little oversight to hold it accountable. What is desperately needed here is accountability, which brings us to our thoughts about Bill C-10.

We note that there is amended language calling for updated policies within the Broadcasting Act that ensure the system serves the needs and interests of all Canadians, including Canadians from racialized communities and Canadians of diverse ethnocultural backgrounds. Our concern is that this language won't change anything, because the language does not explicitly protect Black content or Black content creators. Furthermore, it does not appear as though there are any clear consequences for broadcasters and media companies who do not create or make available programming to Black Canadians. We feel there is a need for more specificity.

This is extremely important. How and why should Black Canadians trust that a body—that's the CRTC—which does not truly reflect all of Canada, will hold accountable companies who fail to do the same?

We are willing to engage with members of this committee and the CRTC to talk about what could be effective.

Here are some examples for you: This might look like policies ensuring Black-owned media outlets are supported and protected in the midst of a changing industry. Additional financial contributions to the Canadian broadcasting system could also be used to support Black media entrepreneurs through new or existing programs. It could mean policies upheld by the CRTC clearly incorporating criteria and consequences related to diversity in issuing and renewing licences. Finally, it could mean a commitment to ensuring licensees have equitable representation in positions of leadership, a commitment that goes beyond gender parity to racial parity, something even this country's political parties have failed to achieve.

According to Statistics Canada, this country's Black population has doubled in size from just over half a million in 1996 to nearly 1.2 million in 2016. It is high time that growth be truly reflected in Canadian media.

The CABJ is doing its part in spite of the deep systemic barriers that still exist in this industry and in this country. Imagine what could be possible if those barriers were removed and replaced with an equitable, accessible system that did not limit the potential of Black journalists and content creators? Our hope is that Bill C-10 is a step in that direction.

Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, Ms. Stewart.

As a quick point of clarification, if I may, you mentioned the population doubled from 1996 to 2016. Is that a national figure?

11:05 a.m.

Journalist and Executive Director, Canadian Association of Black Journalists

Nadia Stewart

Yes, this is data from Statistics Canada, which they released in 2018, I believe. The population doubled from just around 500,000 or so in 1996 to nearly 1.2 million.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Is that for the whole country?

11:05 a.m.

Journalist and Executive Director, Canadian Association of Black Journalists

Nadia Stewart

That's right.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

That's interesting.

Now we go to the Canadian Media Producers Association. We have three guests.

Ms. Haskett, please proceed for five minutes.

11:05 a.m.

Erin Haskett President and Executive Producer, Lark Productions, Canadian Media Producers Association

Hello, Mr. Chair, and committee members.

My name is Erin Haskett. I'm the chair of the Canadian Media Producers Association and president of Lark Productions. Lark is a Vancouver-based production company behind such shows as Fortunate Son, Family Law and Motive.

With me today is Damon D'Oliveira. Damon is the vice-chair of the CMPA board of directors and co-founder of Conquering Lion Pictures, which produced the mini-series Book of Negroes. I'm also joined by Reynolds Mastin, president and CEO of the CMPA.

I want to thank you for inviting us to appear today to contribute to this committee's study of Bill C-10, and especially to thank all members of the committee for the spirit of constructive collaboration that you have brought to the study of this bill.

The CMPA supports the passage of Bill C-10, but we are here to talk about two changes that should be made to ensure a strong and vibrant industry for Canadian content: one, empowering the CRTC to ensure fair deals between streaming services or broadcasters with independent producers through codes of practice; and two, ensuring that Canadians continue to own Canadian content.

The CMPA represents hundreds of Canadian independent production companies engaged in the development, production and distribution of English-language content for the screen.

Have a favourite Canadian TV show? Our members likely produced it.

We work on behalf of those members to ensure a bright future for Canada's media production sector.

11:10 a.m.

Damon D'Oliveira Partner, Conquering Lion Pictures Inc., Canadian Media Producers Association

That future will, in no small part, be determined by the fate of Bill C-10, and the tools it would confer on the CRTC to regulate foreign web giants.

The Internet has fundamentally transformed the way in which content reaches Canadian audiences, and streaming services have revolutionized the way in which film and TV content is shared. However, in the process, the control and benefits associated with that content, the content produced by our members, has shifted. Global streaming platforms are not just aggregating unprecedented catalogues of content, they're amassing enormous control, leverage, economic power and cultural influence.

The fuel that drives the growth and success of the media production sector is intellectual property, or IP for short. Intellectual properties are the ideas, the characters, the voices and ultimately the stories that anchor film and television content. IP is also the leverage that producers have, when negotiating with those who can connect the producers' content to audiences.

For a producer, it takes significant vision, financial investment and a time commitment, usually measured in years, to develop a concept into a viable piece of IP. This is a risk that producers willingly take on. It is our job.

11:10 a.m.

Reynolds Mastin President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Media Producers Association

However, as the Internet altered how audiences access content, streaming services have become some of the most influential corporations on the planet.

As buyers of our members' content, this has given them an outsized advantage in negotiations. A “successful streaming deal” for producers today means they get a payment up front, they surrender global IP rights and, if they're lucky, they become an employee on their own show, while forgoing future revenues that would arise if the show becomes a hit, or if it is replicated in other markets.

The result is a vacuuming sound that is getting louder by the day. The sound of Canadian IP and the revenues it generates being sucked out of Canada by foreign web giants.

What is the solution? It's codes of practice. Essentially, codes of practice, or as they are commonly referred to “terms of trade”, are template structures for negotiations. You can think of codes of practice as agreed-upon rules of the road, a set of baseline conditions under which future individual negotiations can take place in good faith.

Codes of practice would enable Canada's independent producers to negotiate deals where they are able to hold on to at least some of the IP rights in a project they have developed, and in doing so, have the potential for a reliable source of revenue that can be used to invest in future projects, develop a slate of new Canadian shows and ultimately build strong Canadian companies.

To further underscore the importance of Canadian IP, we are also requesting that ownership of Canadian programs by Canadians be included as a policy objective of the Broadcasting Act.

In closing, we applaud the government for the introduction of Bill C-10, and we believe it is a key milestone for Canada's digital economy.

I look forward to answering your questions, along with my colleagues, two prominent independent producers who can provide real-world perspectives on these very important issues.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you very much for that.

Ms. Barsoum and Mr. Wala, good to see you again. They are from the Racial Equity Media Collective.

Ms. Barsoum, go ahead please.

February 22nd, 2021 / 11:10 a.m.

Sherien Barsoum Co-Founder, Racial Equity Media Collective

Thank you, Mr. Simms.

Thank you, members of the committee.

My name is Sherien Barsoum and I am a producer and board member of the Racial Equity Media Collective, also known as the REMC. I am sharing my time with fellow board member and producer Amar Wala.

We are grateful to have been invited to speak to this committee and to give voice to the needs and concerns of Black, indigenous and people of colour creators with respect to the Broadcasting Act proposed amendments.

We present a recommendation today on behalf of more than 60 organizations in the screen and music sectors, including the Black Screen Office, Indigenous Screen Office and the Alliance for Equity in the Music Industry.

11:10 a.m.

Amar Wala Co-Founder and Producer, Racial Equity Media Collective

The REMC is pleased with many of the proposed changes introduced in Bill C-10, in particular, that the act names racialized communities in several instances. Highlighting their voices must be reflected in our broadcast landscape. We must point out, however, that while these words are welcome, similar language has existed in the Broadcasting Act for over 30 years.

The act has included the clear objective of supporting “the multicultural and multiracial nature of Canadian society”. This language, while powerful, has been insufficient and has led to little measurable change. The REMC believes that the current language in the new bill, while improved, must go further.

If the bill's stated equity goals are to be successful, they must be measurable, monitored and enforceable. Otherwise, history will repeat itself.

We understand that the bill is tackling huge issues facing our industry, but anti-racism cannot take a back seat. It must remain a primary focus.

The REMC offers the following three key recommendations that we believe will move the act and Governor in Council directives from aspirational to accountable.

11:15 a.m.

Co-Founder, Racial Equity Media Collective

Sherien Barsoum

First, we request the mandatory collection of race-based data by broadcasters and funders. Over the last year the REMC has consulted with every major Canadian funder and broadcaster to ask who received funding, who is commissioned and who owns the IP of production. The answer across the board has been “we don't know”. Currently there is no way of knowing for certain how bad the situation is or how much progress we're making. The only way to know is through the mandatory tracking of race-based data.

The good news is that industry leaders like the Canada Media Fund and Telefilm have already recognized how urgent this need is and have started to lay the groundwork to collect and report race-based data. Now we need the entire ecosystem of our sector to do the same and to continue doing it long after the current industry leadership moves on.

11:15 a.m.

Co-Founder and Producer, Racial Equity Media Collective

Amar Wala

Second, we ask that the bill clearly prioritize racialized communities in its programming objectives. To truly meet the bill's equity objectives, funders and broadcasters must be compelled to invest in content produced and owned by racialized creators.

We are thrilled that the bill, in proposed subparagraph 3(1)(d)(iii.1) of the current proposed amendments, prioritizes indigenous programming and languages as well as programming that is accessible to Canadians with disabilities. We would like to see the section amended so that it also prioritizes programming that reflects the lived experiences and cultures of racialized communities.

The Governor in Council directives to the CRTC should include directions that outline clear targets and incentives that are linked to a condition of licence. The specific requirements of these benchmarks must be developed through meaningful consultation with BIPOC communities.

11:15 a.m.

Co-Founder, Racial Equity Media Collective

Sherien Barsoum

Finally, we are calling for equity oversight through the appointment of senior equity officers both at the CRTC and at the Department of Canadian Heritage.

The REMC knows well the power of data, but we also know that data is only a tool. In order for that data to truly make a difference, we need senior officers to ensure that the equity objectives of the bill are being met. They will ensure equitable representation within the industry's entire ecosystem. They will monitor and implement policy changes. They will make sure the community is properly consulted and that data is well interpreted and safely managed.

11:15 a.m.

Co-Founder and Producer, Racial Equity Media Collective

Amar Wala

For years our communities have felt under-represented within the Canadian broadcast landscape. For decades our stories and attempts to address the issue of systemic racism in the industry have been met with skepticism and outright denial.

BIPOC creators continue to be underfunded, and BIPOC audiences continue to be undervalued. This is a chance for us to heal these wounds.

Bill C-10 is a generational opportunity. We believe the measures we propose will provide lasting and meaningful change for BIPOC creators in Canada's music, TV, film and digital sectors and ensure that we do not lose another generation of storytellers.

More important, with investment in BIPOC creators, the landscape of Canadian media will flourish, enriched with content that equitably reflects this country.

Thank you very much for your time.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you very much, everyone. That's great.

As a quick reminder to our guests, if you're using the microphone on the cord, please hold it close to your mouth.

Ms. Stewart, if I could get you to get a little closer to your microphone, that would be great. We've had a few audio issues—nothing serious—but if you could get closer to the mike, that would be great.

Now we will go to our questions. Again, because we are all primarily in this virtual world, to help us along, I would ask that my colleagues, the MPs, please name the person they're directing their questions to.

To start, we have Mr. Waugh from the Conservatives.

Go ahead.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, all three groups, to Canadian Heritage today.

To Racial Equity Media, you talked a lot about monitoring, and I have an issue with.... I mean, I don't have an issue with monitoring. I just want to know who you think should monitor and how that would look. I'm a little confused about that.

Thank you; you gave us your three major suggestions here. However, the CRTC, in my view, today seems to be overwhelmed. With your proposal to monitor race-based data now, I want to know who your group would put forward as a recommendation to monitor this in broadcasting in this country.

11:20 a.m.

Co-Founder, Racial Equity Media Collective

Sherien Barsoum

I'm happy to answer that. Thank you for your question.

We believe that the industry needs to be tasked with that monitoring, so that needs to happen at the CRTC level, even if they are burdened with many other tasks. We believe that to be so, because as we mentioned, for the last 30 years or so, equity has been part of the Broadcasting Act. It has been the mandate of this country, but it hasn't happened.

In order for us to be able to see some kind of progress and change, someone needs to monitor it, and it needs to happen at the highest levels of authority. It needs to happen at the CRTC level and at the Canadian Heritage level, which is why we're proposing the office of senior equity officers.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

What would that look like?

11:20 a.m.

Co-Founder, Racial Equity Media Collective

Sherien Barsoum

It would look like senior staff who sit at the highest levels of power making sure that all the major funders, such as Telefilm and the Canada Media Fund and all of the broadcasters, are actually commissioning content, broadcasting content, exhibiting content and hiring representatives from the BIPOC community within their ranks. They would be tracking it using the race-based data that some of the organizations have already started to think about starting to implement.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

That's a big undertaking.