Evidence of meeting #17 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was content.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you very much, Mr. Rayes and Mr. Cardin.
We go to the Liberals now.
Ms. Ien, please go ahead for six minutes.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Marci Ien Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for joining us this afternoon.
Ms. Hinse, I'll speak to you first, if I can. Fifty years in the independent space.... You talked about local programming, community programming and its importance. Can you tell us what kind of representation, with regard to community broadcasting, you'd like to see in this bill that you're not seeing right now?
2:30 p.m.
Director General, Fédération des télévisions communautaires autonomes du Québec
Thank you for your question.
Actually, what's missing from this bill is the community component. First, it's not in the definitions. Unlike community radio, there are very few definitions for community television. There's also an amalgam between stand-alone community television, represented here by my colleague, Cathy Edwards, and myself, and cable-owned community television. We are tied to a cable company and don't have access to other online sources. Since the bill seeks to include online broadcasters, it's important to have a good definition of community so that we too can be part of the new online broadcasters and all that entails.
Ms. Edwards, did you have anything to add?
February 26th, 2021 / 2:30 p.m.
Catherine Edwards Executive Director, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations, Fédération des télévisions communautaires autonomes du Québec
As Ms. Hinse said, and as is in both of our briefs, Quebec and Canada are on the same page. We'd like a definition. There's a big section about the role of the CBC in the previous act and in the current draft act. Other than saying that the community element is one of the three elements in the system, there's no definition at all. We'd like a definition that it's not-for-profit.
Second, we'd like a definition of its role. There used to be a section about alternative media, which was never really used or actionable and almost exactly describes what we do. We serve niche groups and minorities that aren't served by mainstream media.
Third, in all of these different reports that come out, like the creative Canada policy framework and the Yale report.... We're not even mentioned in the 235-page Yale report, other than to take more money away from community TV and give it to private broadcasters. We're in a vacuum.
We've suggested some additional wording to be tacked on to some of the very strong sections in the act just to explain what we do. For example, the inclusivity around the needs for indigenous media has been beefed up in the current act, which we super support, but realistically, the way you're going to get media on most indigenous reserves and programming in the language is through community media. We can produce for a tenth of the cost. We train groups to do their own content.
We've added in our brief particular add-on phrases to clarify where we can address some of these challenges facing the Canadian broadcasting system, mainly around inclusivity and local content.
2:35 p.m.
Liberal
Marci Ien Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Ms. Edwards and Ms. Hinse, thank you so very much.
I want to move on to Mr. Cardin of Netflix now, if I might.
Mr. Cardin, you were saying that Netflix is committed to Canada and telling Canadian stories to the world, but as we've seen and heard today, the point system that determines what is Canadian content isn't always working well. Can you tell us what you might do or what you might suggest to improve that?
2:35 p.m.
Director, Public Policy, Netflix
Ms. Ien, as I mentioned a little earlier, the concern we have is that even when the majority of key creative positions are held by Canadians on shows that we produce, there's also another element: That's the element of financing and ownership, which can preclude a production from being certified as Canadian even if, as I said, 10 out of 10, or eight out of 10, or six out of 10 key creative positions are held by Canadians.
I understand that others may have raised concerns about the point system. For us, we think the question of certification criteria needs a bit more of a holistic revision. That's what we were happy to see in the documents that Heritage circulated at the time the bill was tabled, saying that these could potentially be part of a policy directive to the CRTC.
2:35 p.m.
Liberal
Marci Ien Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
We've heard private broadcasters, Mr. Cardin, talk about levelling the playing field. How do you see that happening? What does levelling the playing field look like to you?
2:35 p.m.
Director, Public Policy, Netflix
It's the concept of like for like, and appropriate contributions considering the nature of the service. Again, we are not saying we do not wish to contribute. We want to participate in the system. It's just that doing so should be done in a manner that takes into consideration the nature of our service. As I mentioned before, our service is really just about entertainment programming—essentially film series, documentaries and family programming—so to us, like with like considers those kinds of elements.
2:35 p.m.
Liberal
Marci Ien Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Mr. Cardin, thank you so much.
Finally, Ms. Dinsmore and Ms. Wheeler, looking through that lens at the importance of news, which you spoke about, what do you see as the short-term and long-term repercussions of enacting Bill C-10?
2:35 p.m.
Vice-President, Regulatory Media, Rogers Communications Inc.
The short-term implication of passing the bill as it is currently proposed is that it would enshrine, in our view, an asymmetrical approach to Canadian versus foreign broadcasters operating in the system. That's why we have proposed the amendments that we have today, to address some of that structural inequity that might be built into the legislation.
2:35 p.m.
Vice-President, Regulatory Media, Rogers Communications Inc.
Our preference is that the language be broadened to capture all players in the system in an equitable fashion—
2:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you, Ms. Wheeler. I appreciate it. I let you finish off your sentence.
Folks, I'll give you a sense of the timing I'm looking at now. We're running against the clock. It looks like we have time for only one round, given the time constraints.
Here's what I've done thus far, and I hope you accept it. I gave Mr. Rayes about seven minutes and a little bit. I just gave Ms. Ien seven minutes and a little bit. I am looking at seven minutes and a little bit for both the Bloc and the NDP, in the interest of fairness. That way, we can push the clock on the first round as far as we can. I hope that is okay.
Mr. Champoux, you have six minutes.
2:40 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
My thanks to the witnesses for being here today, because they always enrich us with their contribution.
I would like to start with you, Mr. Cardin. Netflix has invested the equivalent of $2.5 billion in Canada since its agreement with the government, which is very good. That's about three-quarters of a billion dollars a year. Can you tell me how much of that goes to acquisitions versus what goes to production?
2:40 p.m.
Director, Public Policy, Netflix
I don't have the exact figures for the ratio between acquisitions and original Netflix productions. They're both significant. In terms of our productions in Quebec, we have produced comedy specials and the feature film Jusqu'au déclin, which is an original creation, but we have also acquired several feature films, including 1991, Bon cop, bad cop, Bon cop, bad cop 2, Les affamés, and others that were once in our catalogue but are no longer there because the rights have expired.
2:40 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
In terms of your investments, can you tell me the ratio of French-language to English-language productions? I'm talking about within Canada, of course.
2:40 p.m.
Director, Public Policy, Netflix
No. Certainly, as far as the francophone proportion is concerned, we have to make additional efforts. I'll give you that. We are not hiding the fact. It is part of the reason why we decided to open an office in Canada. Our goal is to broaden our relationships with Quebec creators. I hope the proportion will be higher. Quebec, by the way, is a very important centre for us when it comes to visual effects and animation. We are very involved here and we want to increase that presence.
2:40 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
I'm pleased to hear you stress the need to make more effort in terms of French and Quebec content. Actually, I would like to make it clear that we are insisting on strict regulations to ensure that it is not simply a matter of good will, but also an obligation for those whose activities take place in our communities. I think you are very aware of this. In fact, it seems to me that, generally speaking, the regulations are not an issue for Netflix.
I would like to briefly talk about discoverability and to find out what you think about the following issue. We are being asked to make Quebec and Canadian content more easily accessible on platforms such as yours, to better identify sections, not necessarily at the bottom of the page, and to make the content visible without having to search for it. We often talk about productions that are a little more popular, but there are still some very interesting creations and we would very much like to find them on digital platforms.
What do you think?
2:40 p.m.
Director, Public Policy, Netflix
Netflix's success is due in part to the fact that we make life easier for our users, our members, I should say, when they make choices and find what interests them. They can simply use the traditional search tool that allows them to indicate “Quebec” or “Quebec production,” consult our “series” or “feature film” categories, which include a Canadian section. I believe that our members can easily find Quebec content. We provide a showcase for our Quebec members, but also for others. I think it's important to make that clear. I'll again use the film Jusqu'au déclin as an example. More than 21 million people around the world have seen that film, and 95% of them were outside Canada. Many Quebeckers were able to see Jusqu'au déclin, but it also allows Quebec culture to be showcased worldwide.
2:40 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
These productions deserve to be funded, and I'm glad you recognize that. You won't be disappointed to find these obligations in the act, since you find them worthwhile and see a number of benefits.
2:45 p.m.
Director, Public Policy, Netflix
We support the framework proposed in Bill C-10 as introduced last November 3, but I'm also telling you that we want to do more here in Quebec.
2:45 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Cardin.
I would now like to speak with Ms. Hinse about community television and radio, which are very close to my heart.
Ms. Hinse, thank you for being here today. You would like the bill to recognize the presence of community media, but I would like to address the issue of funding. When we met a few days ago, you talked about something that I find absolutely astounding. The cable companies that own community television stations were required to invest a certain percentage, but that obligation has been removed. Could you elaborate on that?
2:45 p.m.
Director General, Fédération des télévisions communautaires autonomes du Québec
Thank you for your question, Mr. Champoux.
In the latest amendments to the act, the CRTC stopped requiring cable companies in metropolitan areas to invest in community television and redirected them to local media outlets. In my opinion, this makes no sense because it means taking money away from some organizations and people who were doing local news and redirecting it to other local news. It's not effective in increasing the amount of local news across the country, and it doesn't make sense to take money from one area and put it somewhere else. We have demonstrated that we are much more effective and efficient at producing local news.
Right now, there is a crisis in the media, especially in local media. The Department of Canadian Heritage has recognized this by launching its local journalism initiative, in which we are participating. This is a very good first step. However, there needs to be a clear definition of what community media are and what they do. The lack of such a definition is what has allowed the CRTC to amend the act, with an extremely significant negative impact.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you, Ms. Hinse.
Monsieur Champoux, that was a little over seven minutes.
I know we have a problem with the clock when it comes to the second round. I'd like to promise all my colleagues that I'm going to try to work on something for this. With your blessing, I'm going to seek a solution such that, in the second round, we may not go the full time, which is according to the standing orders that we passed, but I will try to work something out so that everybody can be involved with the guests we have.
I know we lose 10 to 15 minutes for technical reasons. I'd like to gain a lot of that back. I apologize, but we don't have enough time for a full second round. What I'm going to do is end here with Ms. McPherson. I'll get back to you about a solution for the second round of questioning when this comes again. I find it a little bit off-putting that we get two rounds in the first hour but not in the second. I'm going to seek out some fairness.
In the meantime—
