Evidence of meeting #25 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Legislative Clerk
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It's hard for me to debate the language. I assume the amendment has been drafted in English to start with and been translated by specialized people—legal translators—in-house. I don't think I can comment on the content in terms of French versus English.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Because it's a subamendment from the floor, we're going to repeat it just to make sure we have this right in both languages, in the absence of the written form.
Mr. Champoux.
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
I wanted to provide my modest linguistic contribution on the difference that may be perceived between the meaning of the English version and that of the French version. This is actually a question we wanted to put to Mr. Méla.
Pardon me, I'll find the page in question and get right back to you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you.
Once again I stress the importance of doing this from the floor.
Mr. Champoux, do you have what you're looking for?
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Yes, Mr. Chair.
So the English version reads as follows:
each foreign online undertaking shall make the greatest practicable use of Canadian creative
The French version states:
les entreprises étrangères en ligne sont tenues de faire appel dans toute la mesure possible
It states "dans toute la mesure possible" in order to emphasize the intent.
Can Mr. Méla reassure us as to the degree of intent conveyed in the French version, which we feel is somewhat less strong than in the English version?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
I see what you're saying. This is a measure of intent not interpretation. I understand.
I don't know if Mr. Méla is available to comment on that right now.
Legislative Clerk
It looks the same to me, but then again, you have to keep in mind that the translation has to take into consideration what has been used in the whole bill and in the amendment as well. Maybe that language is used elsewhere in the bill and that's why it was used there. All in all, it appears to be of the same strength and value.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Mr. Champoux, I'm going to ask you to respond to that.
I'd like to get your comfort level on this before we proceed.
Go ahead.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
I wanted to hear Mr. Méla's opinion to assure me that the CRTC would interpret the act in exactly the same way in English and in French. My impression was that the English version was slightly stronger than the French version. That's why I had reservations about the French version. However, if Mr. Méla is confirming that the two versions will be interpreted in the same way, then I'm reassured.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Okay. Let's go back and get an update, because I would really like to read this into the record one more time, because we're doing this from the floor as opposed to in writing.
Mr. Méla, I'm going to gauge your comfort level before I go to Ms. Dabrusin to read the subamendment once again.
Legislative Clerk
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have the subamendment, once included in the amendment. I can read that if that is better?
Legislative Clerk
Proposed paragraph (f) would read as follows: “each Canadian broadcasting undertaking shall employ and make maximum use, and in no case less than predominant use, of Canadian creative and other human resources in the creation, production and and presentation of programming, unless the nature of the service provided by the undertaking, such as specialized content or format or the use of languages other than French and English, renders that use impractical, in which case the undertaking shall make the greatest practicable use of those resources”.
Proposed paragraph (f.1) would read as follows: “each foreign online undertaking shall make the greatest practicable use of Canadian creative and other human resources and shall contribute in an equitable manner to strongly support the creation, production and presentation of Canadian programming in accordance with the objectives of the broadcasting policy set out in this subsection and taking into account the linguistic duality of the market they serve”.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
I guess we don't need Ms. Dabrusin to repeat it.
Is everybody at a comfort level with this?
Ms. McPherson.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I think it might have been a small error, but when he was reading proposed paragraph (f), he said “prominent” and not “predominant”.
I want to clarify that it is in fact “predominant” and not “prominent”. I think it was a small error.
Legislative Clerk
Yes, it is “predominant”.
I will just add that my colleague just checked the act, and indeed, the point that Mr. Champoux was putting forward is translated in the act in the same way.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
That's excellent work.
Thank you, legislative clerks. How you manage to keep this language in your head, moving around, and to make of sense of it is always beyond me. Now is an appropriate time to say thank you for all that you do.
That being said, Ms. McPherson, are you finished? Okay.
Go ahead, Mr. Champoux.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Would I be testing the committee's patience if I asked Mr. Méla to read the amendment in French as it would be altered by the subamendment?
Legislative Clerk
Yes, you would, because I don't have the French version. I apologize.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
This kind of puts us in an awkward situation, obviously, with a translation from the floor. Because we do not have it in writing, it becomes difficult to do, Mr. Champoux.
Were you okay with the interpretation as you heard it?
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
I listened to it in the original language, Mr. Chair. I wanted to hear it read in English first because I thought we would also read it in French. I now know that Mr. Méla didn't have the French version. I have it before me. Does the committee wish me to read it, or will we rely on the legislative drafters' translation?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
To see that you're at a comfortable level, would you like to go ahead and read that, Mr. Champoux?