Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2020

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

You talked about watering the roots to keep them alive. This is what we're talking about, the water and fertilizer to keep the roots alive. If we can't come up with a deficit number and you have spent your reserves, this ongoing money that you're talking about doesn't replace those reserves.

Mr. Mitchell, would it be possible in your world?

[Adam Mitchell]

I think it would be incredibly difficult. I think that as a festival producer we've been very fortunate to have an organization such as Mr. Roy's doing some of that work across the country.

What I can say is that Edmonton as a jurisdiction has alone 800-plus community events that are registered with the City of Edmonton. For the cornerstone and bricks-and-mortar institutions, it is going to be much easier to articulate debt than for the many variants, from community theatres all the way up through independent artists, self-producing artists and semi-professional companies at various stages. Trying to articulate that loss is going to be very difficult.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I understand that, but we're talking about recovery and an economic driver. Mr. Roy has identified a number. If he can do it, if you want guaranteed funding and a lump sum for recovery, how to indicate that is going to be a challenge.

A government can deal with a large number based on criteria; it's easier to identify it that way. If Mr. Roy can identify it as an economic driver and have a number, I think we have a challenge here that could be a solution.

Mr. Roy, do you want to respond to that?

[Martin Roy]

The question is indeed very relevant. I can tell you that deficits are very significant in all festival organizations for the reasons I've given you. Everyone had started spending normally between September or October 2019 and March. So there are significant deficits.

People at the Stratford Festival have even said so publicly. We're talking about a deficit of over $20 million. Across Quebec, festivals and events are reporting deficits in the order of $500,000 to $1 million. This is a ball and chain for the economic recovery.

We can well imagine that from the moment we can hold festivals and events again, if we are running deficits, we will be required to make reduced editions, when we would need improved editions. This is counterproductive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Roy.

We now go to Ms. Bessette for five minutes.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for their testimonies.

My questions are for Katherine Henderson of Curling Canada.

As you know, I'm quite familiar with the sports world, having been an Olympic athlete. I know how important continuity of training is to our athletes.

How did Curling Canada ensure that it supported the continuity of training for athletes and its affiliated organizations? What were the challenges associated with this objective?

[Katherine Henderson]

It depends at what level.

By the way, I'm very familiar with your career. I've worked in major games previously, so it's always a thrill to talk to somebody who has competed at that level.

At Curling Canada, we've had to reorient our high-performance training. It has been set up very differently this year. Depending upon where you are in the country, we have developed return-to-play guidelines for those people who can go into a local club.

Everything has to be done, however, very locally right now. In curling, for example, much of the way the athlete develops is through competition. Our competitions-to-training ratios are thus relatively high. We have quite a bit of competition in Canada, and that's one reason—I'll use curling as the example—that our athletes do so well on the world stage and have won many Olympic and world championship medals.

Right now they're limited, though. They are preparing for the Olympic Games in Beijing in 2022 and are very worried about their inability to compete in order to become better and make sure that they represent Canada very well on the world stage.

We also have a medical officer of health whom we work with, and we have high-performance coaches and teams who are trying to replicate something for them so that they can do dryland training or very protected training at their home base.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I'll go to my third question quickly.

It's related to what you were saying before, Ms. Henderson.

Have you been able to hold events? If so, even if there were only a few events, how did they unfold?

[Katherine Henderson]

We have not been able to hold any events as of yet, but we have provided support and particularly medical advice and return-to-competition advice for those athletes who wish to play in their local and home territories, through our national team programs.

At this point, however, Curling Canada has not been able to hold events for these athletes.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

How has the federal government helped Curling Canada since the start of the pandemic? Could you tell me a little more about that?

[Katherine Henderson]

We're very grateful for the assistance we've received so far. We were able to access some of the money from the emergency funds that were provided. Doing so actually helps us survive as an NSO, as an organization. We were able to access some of the emergency wage subsidy funding over the last number of months.

Beyond that, I guess what we're really saying is that when we put on a competition, it's not really for our own survival, but for the survival of the system, because these major competitions, which have commercial aspects.... We're funded differently from many of the national sport organizations, in that we're able to hold very large events and generate from them the majority of our revenues, which we reinvest back into the system. In Canada, that system consists of a thousand local clubs and 14 member associations, as well as a national sport organization.

The competition is something that really starts at the roots and works all the way to the top. We as an NSO have received funding from the federal government, which has helped us survive as an NSO.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Henderson.

Do I still have a little bit of time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Now, I'd like to ask the representative of Regroupement des événements majeurs internationaux some questions.

Mr. Roy, how do you make the transition to virtual events? What are the challenges you face when making large-scale shows virtual?

[Martin Roy]

Thank you for the question.

Let's say that the possibilities are multiple and it really depends on the events. We saw that, in the case of the Francos or the Montreal International Jazz Festival, they set up a digital component based on events that had already been recorded. They also created original material in small venues and made it accessible to everyone for free.

Other events have opted for paid formulas. I can cite the example of TIFF. The Just for Laughs festival had more than 30,000 paid connections to a recent edition. There are hybrid formats and other fully digital formats. You can also hold performances in venues with few people and broadcast them on the Web.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Roy.

Mrs. Desbiens, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to go back to Mr. Roy.

Mr. Roy, you told us earlier that to maintain the 2020 level would require $30 million.

What would you say if the government were asked to make these two programs permanent?

[Martin Roy]

It would be the least it could do.

In 2019, we welcomed this measure to reinvest in the two programs I was talking about. However, it still didn't make sense to us that it would be for two years. We had to make the correction.

For these programs, we had the same budget for 11 years. There was no indexation. Again, for us, it makes no sense to have to go back to a previous level.

We've always felt we needed to do more anyway. The money that has been allocated for the pandemic should even be made permanent as well. It goes without saying.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

There are major cultural events, such as the Festival d'été de Québec and the Francos de Montréal, but there are also smaller events, such as the Festif! in Baie-Saint-Paul, which also have needs.

Frankly, I think it's wrong to believe that you can organize large festivals—which require a lot of logistics—in a year. The fact that aid is perennial and indexed to situations would help to solve the problem. We won't always be in a health crisis situation. We won't have solved this issue by 2022, and there may be other similar crises.

What do you think about indexed support and the possibility of taking into account the situation from one year to the next in the management of these programs?

[Martin Roy]

I totally agree. Organizers of most festivals and events tell me that one of the main challenges they face is unpredictability. You need to be able to budget for events in 2021, 2022 and beyond. At the moment, if you're yo-yoing around with budgets in different programs, it's certainly not beneficial.

I imagine that Mr. Mitchell agrees with me. His festival is a FAME member, and we had the opportunity to talk about it. We met a few years ago in Edmonton.

I assure you that predictability is a must in our industry. We need to settle this once and for all and have three-year agreements. There's a lot that can be done administratively.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Roy. That was very clear.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mrs. Desbiens.

Ms. McPherson, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have another couple of questions for Mr. Mitchell.

What we see when we look at the Fringe Festival and other festivals is twofold. One side is that we need to figure out a way to get the support to the artists and make sure that artists are supported. One thing we're interested in looking at, therefore, is a guaranteed basic income.

Very quickly, please, do you feel that this would be helpful for the sector as we go into the 2021 season, and then again until we get to the 2022 season?

[Adam Mitchell]

Yes, absolutely, it would give us the best chance of retaining incredible talent while we wait to restart.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Following up on that, the second piece is the support that we want to be able to get to venues.

Of course, the Fringe Festival is a multitude of venues, but just within the theatre community, particularly in Edmonton Strathcona, has the rent subsidy program worked? How could it be made better? Are there concerns that it will end and that people will be left high and dry?