Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 12th, 2023

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Just quickly, one of the things the survivors have said is that it traumatizes them to be heard from again and again. You have the witness testimony from both committees. The survivors say that there's not a lack of forums to tell their stories. There is a lack of space where someone can hold abusers and enablers accountable, and this commission doesn't solve that fundamental problem.

Thank you for—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. We're at time, Marilyn.

The minister might want to answer that if someone else asks later on.

I'm going to go with the Liberals and Anju Dhillon.

Anju, you have five minutes please.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our minister and everybody for being here today.

We've seen that a commission is preferred over a public inquiry. Could you tell us a little bit about how the voices of survivors and athletes were taken into account in coming to this decision, please? Thank you.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Quickly, as I said, that was the first thing I did. I've lost count of the number of organizations and athletes directly. There are athlete groups; survivor groups; victims; individuals; organizations inside of sport, outside of sport and internationally; people who have been very critical about the system, including the likes of Global Athlete and Gymnasts for Change Canada; people who are working within the system such as Allison Forsyth and Sheldon Kennedy; and organizations of athletes in the system such as AthletesCAN, COC's athletes' commission and CPC's athletes' council.

I was very focused with my questions around what outcomes they are looking for and what needs to be in this process so that athletes will feel heard and so that victims and survivors will feel safe. I took all that in and came to this as the answer.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

What is the mandate of the commission, and what activities will be conducted? Is there going to be a report, and will aspects of it be public or will some of it not be disclosed?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

The mandate of the commission is twofold. One is to dig in and to provide recommendations on actions that can be taken specific to safe sport. What can we do? What kinds of processes can we put in place to protect athletes when they disclose and to make sure the system supports them going through their healing journey? What is missing in the system?

Recognizing that safe sport permeates every aspect of the system, the other is a broader look at the sports system itself. Are there too many organizations with people wearing too many hats? I could give you a list of my own questions I would want answered if I were the commissioner, but fundamentally, it takes a broader review of the system.

Again, as I said, two reports will be produced publicly, with the information anonymized if that's what the witnesses want, and with a national summit in between to kind of raise the conversation again to the national level before recommendations are finalized.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

The terms specifically say that the commission will be taking a trauma-informed approach. Can you please tell us a bit about this and how it's going to be done?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

As I have learned, there are some very specific things we want to bake into a process to ensure that it's trauma-informed. These are, first of all, recognizing that people come into this process having been hurt and harmed, and that they are all at different stages of their journey.

For me, it was important to build in not only the language of trauma-informed but actually the related process. It's having mental health support, having experts on hand during engagement so that people can talk to somebody if this brings up anxieties or feelings of distress, making sure that the data can be anonymized, giving people many different ways to contribute, and obligating victim impact statements so that the commission has to provide an opportunity for victims to do victim impact statements.

There will be an online survey. There will be an online portal for Canadians to make submissions. We're just doing whatever we can to get the information in the least traumatizing way, by giving people choice and empowerment and making sure we understand that the people are at the centre of this.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

You've also announced that, instead of waiting for the recommendations of the commission, you want to take immediate action. This includes a future of sport commission and the immediate actions that you are going to be taking. Can you talk to us about these a bit, very briefly?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you.

I've already talked about a couple of them.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Yes.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

At the beginning of this year, Sport Canada put out a call for applications for a Sport Canada athlete advisory committee. I made the decision to make that a ministerial advisory committee so that the athlete group will advise me directly, and I'll be able to get their input.

As I've said, there's an integrated integrity framework for Canada, and there's a review of Sport Canada's funding framework, with a view to making it more risk-based with tighter compliance and strengthened accountability measures. We stood up the accountability and compliance unit in the last year. We still have a funding framework. The two aren't necessarily as integrated as I would like to see them, so we're going to do that work. There's an international working group on integrity in sport, and we moved the OSIC out of the SDRCC.

I feel like I've missed one, but I'm not sure. There are six of them, and I think I only got five.

[A voice]

What about AthletesCAN?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

There's funding to AthletesCAN to build its organizational capacity.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Excellent. Thank you so much, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We'll now go to Mr. Lemire for two and a half minutes.

Please go ahead, Sébastien.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, you used to be an athlete, and for more than 25 years, you've been very involved on a number of levels. What's more, you're one of the main architects of the various mechanisms that have been put in place in Canadian sports. You were also sport minister from 2015 to 2017.

I'd like to talk about a specific case, that of Kristen Worley.You were asked to respond, as minister of sport, when her story was brought to light, but you didn't react. Ms. Worley won her case in front of the human rights tribunal for the sexual violations she endured from the tests mandated by the International Olympic Committee, or IOC. Canada let that happen without lifting a finger. We all know the situation. Ms. Worley had to fend for herself.

In the current context and going by what you're proposing, I think that a case like that is limited. You have a duty of reconciliation, and it's from that perspective that the survivors have asked that the state, that Canada, take responsibility. You also need to take the sports systems' autonomy away, as they've protected their integrity instead of protecting victims.

Will you align athlete protection with civil or criminal courts as well as human rights tribunals?

How will a voluntary commission like the one you're offering up as a response help in a case like Ms. Worley's? I'll remind you that the courts found in her favour.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

You know, Kristen Worley's case was very difficult. Perhaps I should have intervened more. I think that's all I can say on that. I apologize if I should have done more.

I think that we need to better link the systems we put in place with the judicial system. I look at the Australian model where Sport Integrity Australia is grounded in a policing model, if you will. There's a direct relationship with the state police that we don't have here. We certainly don't have those levers in Sport Canada. Our lever in Sport Canada is funding. It's not regulation.

I think we need to do a better job to get rid of conflicts of interest in sport.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

When will there be legislation?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Can you say that again?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

When will there be legislation?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I'm sorry. I don't understand the question.

[A voice]

He is asking when a bill will be available.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Oh, he's asking about a bill.

My apologies, Mr. Lemire, I didn't understand your question.

We don't have legislation at the moment.

We don't have that in the works. I'm certainly open to doing that if that's the best way to do it.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.