Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 12th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Kevin. Your time is up.

For the Liberals, I'll now go to Michael Coteau.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. Thank you to all the witnesses.

We have sat in committee and listened to many stories. I know you know these stories. Even with the fact that we represent different political parties, we've pretty much been on the same page when it comes to this issue around how we protect the interests of victims and create some type of forum where they could be heard. It's also accountability for the organizations that.... It's not all sports organizations. There are a lot of good organizations out there. It's not every individual within an organization, but some real rotten culture exists within sport. We all know that, and this has been a long process for us as committee members.

I'm happy there's a forum where victims will finally have a legitimate platform to speak on these issues in a respectful way, where they'll be protected. I think that's a good thing.

One concern I have is the other piece. How do we hold organizations accountable?

I know it's not your job as the minister or ours as members of Parliament to go out there and arrest people and book them. That's not our part of the process, but how do we ensure that we hold organizations that are rotten at the core or individuals within that organization accountable if we can't compel them to come to a commission to actually speak? Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I have so many thoughts.

I think what the commission needs to ultimately lead to—if I could have my ultimate wish here—would be culture change. Part of the challenge within sport is that it's not just these egregious instances of abuse that we've all heard about. It's that a lot of very bad behaviour has been normalized in the sport system.

There are a lot of people wearing more than one hat in the system. It's volunteer-driven. It's federal-provincial. These are systemic issues that, until we figure out how to streamline the sports system and address these conflicts of interest, we're not going to have the sport we want for our kids. It's going to be really hard.

I think it's going to be demanded by the public. That's going to be the impetus. I'm hoping the profile of the commission will elevate this and keep it on the radar of the general public, which will and should start demanding better sport.

There's a push and pull here. We have Canadians who have participated in the normalization of this behaviour—the mockery, the intimidation, the bullying, the teasing and the poor language. It just happens. There are parents yelling at officials on the rink and parents yelling at other families' kids who are playing on the soccer field. We don't do this in any other sector. We don't do it in education. I don't walk into my parent-teacher interview and start yelling at the other kids who got the A that my kid should have gotten, but we do it in sport.

I really think the public has to step up and realize that some massive culture change is needed in this system.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Has there been any conversation with the Minister of Justice in regard to working together, just for advice, to see how the commission can get the best advice possible? If there are obvious trends that are going on with testimony, and there's the potential of criminal activity—

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Absolutely, yes.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Will there at least be a conversation that will allow for the exploration of how people can be held accountable for their actions?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Absolutely. That's already happened, and I think I could say confidently that our government is watching this very closely. Again, I reference the Australian model. There's very active participation of the police in the integrity mechanisms in Australia that there isn't here. I would like to see more of that present here.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Now I want to thank the Minister for giving us an hour, a little over an hour, of her time.

I'm going to say you're free to leave unless you want to stay for another hour, Minister.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I don't think you do.

We will suspend and then go to our second hour. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I've thanked the officials, and I named them for you earlier on in this meeting, so I won't go over it again.

We're going to begin with a six-minute round, starting with Martin Shields for the Conservatives.

Go ahead for six minutes, Martin.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. These have been an interesting couple of days, I'm sure, when things are announced and you've done a lot of work behind them.

I have a couple of very specific things that I would ask first.

There was a call for athletes to be part of a committee, and that now has changed in title. Were there members, athletes, chosen to be on that committee? They had applied. Has that committee formed?

[Isabelle Mondou]

Yes, they applied, and there was a pre-selection done, but the final selection has not been made. Because now the minister wants to elevate the committee to a ministerial committee, there will be a reopening of the call.

The ones who have already applied will be considered, so they don't have to worry. They're already among the names of people who will be considered, but new people can apply if they're interested, because it's a ministerial committee. She will then make a decision very quickly, because she wants to move on with the committee.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Going back to the first call, then, what were the criteria for the first call?

[Isabelle Mondou]

I can turn to my colleague here, Emmanuelle.

[Emmanuelle Sajous, Assistant Deputy Minister, Sport, Major Events and Commemorations, Department of Canadian Heritage]

The criteria will remain the same. We're looking for athletes who are still active in a national or international body and who have been retired from sports for less than eight years. It's basically the same, and we want it to be as inclusive as possible, so we're looking for a very broad pool of athletes.

[Isabelle Mondou]

We'd be happy to share the criteria with the committee, if that's helpful.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Just to be clear in my own mind, you had that call-out, people applied and the criteria didn't change, but you're starting it over again and those people who applied can still be included. I'm confused. Why didn't you just elevate it to the next level? “Okay, guys, now you're on a committee that's called this.”

[Isabelle Mondou]

Basically, it's because the minister thought that maybe some people were not interested in being on a committee of athletes with Sport Canada, but that they may be interested now that she's taking it under her own umbrella. She wanted to give the chance to athletes who may not have applied to the first one to apply now if they are now interested. That's the only reason.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Okay, so it's a distinction of who they were responsible to, under what mandate—

[Isabelle Mondou]

Exactly. The athletes were going to inform the policies at Sport Canada, so they were going to work and give us advice, but now the minister wants that advice to come directly to her. Therefore, she wants to give the chance to people to reconsider if they changed their minds and they want to apply.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

What about the responsibilities? Is it a different level of responsibility, ministerial versus the other? What are you looking for?

[Isabelle Mondou]

Basically, the minister will be able to consult them on any subject she feels like. For all of the changes she has been talking about, I think she will want the athletes' input on those changes. The committee will basically be her sounding board on the different initiatives she's going to move forward.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Again, was the criteria that they were a national or an international athlete?