Canadian Heritage Committee on May 21st, 2024

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

First of all, I know the work Ms. Ashton has done on human rights and indigenous rights. The Canadian Human Rights Act is very important, but my understanding is that it's completely separate from this bill.

Can I ask our expert witnesses about that? Is there overlap with Bill C-316, or does the Canadian Human Rights Act have its own processes? I just want to clarify that, if they can add to it.

Based on my understanding, I will be voting against this, because it's a completely separate process outside of the scope of this bill. I just want to get clarification, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. McMurren.

[Blair McMurren]

We agree this is a discussion point, for sure. The Canadian Human Rights Act is governed by a separate legal regime and is administered by a commission. In some cases, it's administered by a tribunal. It has quite a different scope from the existing court challenges program as well. It involves the federal machinery of government, but also federally regulated private sectors, such as transport or banking, which is not the case with the existing court challenges program.

On the face of it, it would appear to evoke an expansion of the existing program, which we think would need to be considered carefully. It would raise some issues of policy alignment, we think.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. McMurren.

Mrs. Thomas, I think your hand was up for the subamendment, although I think I'm hearing that it may not be valid. It may be affecting a totally different act.

Go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I think that was the clarification I was looking for. In my mind, it expands the bill beyond its intended scope.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We'll go to Ms. Ashton again.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I appreciate what was shared with us. I want to make it clear that we heard from a number of witnesses that expanding the scope of the bill to include a reference to the Canadian Human Rights Act was in the spirit of what this bill seeks to do. It's for that reason that we put it forward. It was to give marginalized communities, like first nations and others, the tools to fight for their rights based on the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It's in that spirit that we in the NDP put forward the subamendment, and I'm happy to vote for it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Shall I call a vote?

Mr. Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'm sorry. Mr. Waugh, you were—

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Yes, vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Are we going to vote on the subamendment?

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

No. We just heard from the officials that it expands the legislation. We've heard from the clerk that's not allowed; it's out of scope.

Mr. Clerk, it appears you might have missed one.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Do you want to answer him?

[Philippe Méla]

Since the chair has not ruled it inadmissible, by default, it would be admissible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Based on what I think the mover of the bill, Mr. Serré, intended for this bill—he said he would vote against it because it would expand the intent of his bill—and what we heard from the officials, which is that it would expand the scope of the bill, I will have to move Niki's subamendment inadmissible.

Niki, I'm sorry.

Now let's move on to the amendment that Mr. Noormohamed made. We're now going back to that discussion.

Mr. Noormohamed, is there anything you want to say? You spoke to it already, unless you think you can gild the lily a bit more.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

If you would like me to gild the lily, I can, but in the interest of time, I'd love for us to vote on it and get on with the game.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

On the amendment, Mr. Serré and Mrs. Thomas wanted to speak to it. Do they still wish to speak to it?

Mr. Serré said no.

Mrs. Thomas, is it a yes or no?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Y-E-S.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, Mrs. Thomas. You don't have to be sarcastic. When I don't hear you, I don't hear you.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

You just have to listen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm trying to listen, but my earpiece is blocked when my speaking button is on. It's pretty simple to understand that.

Mrs. Thomas, go ahead.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I would like to move a subamendment. I would be inserting it after G-1 in its original form, which ends with “Government of Canada”. I would insert “and that the program be overseen by an independent organization for which the selection criteria shall be made public and the final selection decision shall be tabled in each House of Parliament”.

Do you need me to repeat that, Clerk?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, please.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

It's to insert “and that the program be overseen by an independent organization for which the selection criteria shall be made public and the final selection decision shall be tabled in each House of Parliament”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That's admissible.

Let's discuss the subamendment by Mrs. Thomas.