Canadian Heritage Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[Philippe Méla]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Champoux, the committee just adopted a subamendment to amendment G-2. I understand that you want to replace “an overview” with “a list.” This is just above the subamendment that was just adopted.

Also, you want to add “if those cases have been made public.” to the end of the original amendment G-2, but this has just been amended. Do you still want to keep this addition there, or do you want to put it at the end of the subamendment that has just been adopted? In that case, “ces dernières” would apply to everything before, not just the cases.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

The goal is to have maximum transparency and improve accountability for the Court Challenges Program.

Mr. Méla, would you agree that putting this portion of my subamendment at the very end of the adopted subamendment will improve the Program's transparency and accountability? If so, I'll follow your suggestion. Otherwise, I'll leave it where it was originally intended to go.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Perhaps we can get an answer from Mr. McMurren.

Go ahead, please.

[Blair McMurren]

I want to confirm that, according to the Modernized Program Contribution Agreement, the envisioned approach described by Ms. Marika Giles Samson during her testimony is to make cases public once they are closed, once appeal avenues are exhausted.

What is being proposed here would be a change to the envisioned approach of the modernized program. This change in practice is not within the program's scope at this time. It would be a significant change to a fairly significant practice in the current program.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Actually, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a list rather than an overview once cases have been completed or files have been closed. That would address the concerns of various witnesses who came here to state their complaints and concerns regarding the Court Challenges Program. I think requiring a list to be published rather than an overview would sufficiently address their concerns. An overview is no more and no less than what program administrators choose to disclose or the cases they consider appropriate to disclose. I think it is entirely legitimate to request a complete list of cases.

In your opinion, would that be difficult to do?

[Blair McMurren]

I will have to consult the contribution agreement, Madam Chair.

In principle, the idea of a list might be acceptable as long as it's a list of the cases closed in the previous year.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I would be very happy with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Speaking to Mr. Champoux's subamendment, Ms. Thomas has the floor.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Sorry, before Ms. Thomas, Mr. Méla wants to ask a question of the mover.

Martin, Mr. Méla wishes to ask you a question to clarify.

[Philippe Méla]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to make sure everything is in the right place. After the words “in the previous year”, you would add “if those cases have been made public”. Is that correct?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Yes.

[Philippe Méla]

Perfect, thank you.

Since I have the floor, I would point out that agreeing to subamendment G-2 results in a line conflict with amendment BQ-5.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Ms. Thomas, are you speaking to the subamendment of Mr. Champoux?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Yes.

Chair, it has been a little bit tricky just to follow along. I'm just hoping that you...or that through you, there can be some clarification as to what exactly is happening here.

I understand that Mr. Champoux is incorporating BQ-4. However, my understanding of the situation is that he is not bringing in his suggested (a) section within BQ-4, but only (b), which is to say that the cases made public would be reported on.

I just want to confirm that I'm understanding that correctly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Yes, that is correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Okay. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay.

Is your hand up or down? Have you finished, Ms. Thomas?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

It's up to speak to the amendment, but not to the subamendment anymore.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right. Thank you.

Is there anybody else?

Mr. Lawrence, speaking to the subamendment of Mr. Champoux.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Yes, I'm speaking to the subamendment.

I'm sorry. I didn't catch on initially, until Mrs. Thomas clarified.

We would just be adding “previous calendar year, if those cases have been made public.” We're just doing (b) instead of (a). Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes.