Canadian Heritage Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 121 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

In keeping with the House of Commons order of November 22, 2023, we are resuming consideration of Bill C-316, an act to amend the Canadian Heritage Act regarding the court challenges program.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'm sorry, but I have just a really brief administrative matter.

On May 7, 2024, when Ms. Catherine Tait appeared, I asked if she received a bonus.

She responded, “I'd like to get legal counsel to make sure that it's in compliance with the Privacy Act before I do so, but if it is, I will provide it to this committee.”

Through the chair to the clerk, have we received correspondence from Ms. Tait telling us what her bonus amount was for the 2021-22 year?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I don't think we have.

We heard back from Ms. Tait that she is going to be doing so soon. They're collecting all the information they need.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Perhaps I'll come back next week—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Remember that the board of directors is not meeting until June 12.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

This is from the previous year, so this is information she already had. It's for 2021-22. This is a bonus she's already received, and she was going to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The clerk can answer that one, because I can't.

I can tell you that we want to get on with orders of the day, which I was trying to read into the record.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

It's just a quick administrative thing—just a yes or no—and then we'll go ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Do you have anything to say about that, Clerk?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Geneviève Desjardins]

I did follow up with them yesterday about that. They said they're looking into it and they're preparing everything to send to us.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Okay, I don't want to waste any time, so I'll perhaps return next week if we don't receive anything, to send a letter to Ms. Tait.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I think they have been contacted by the clerk in writing.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Madam Chair, I'll be very quick, if you don't mind.

I asked the CBC for the 6 p.m. newscast ratings from coast to coast. I was wondering if that has been—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That's going to come with all the other things they're sending.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, November 22, 2023, the committee is returning to its consideration of Bill C-316, an act to amend the Canadian Heritage Act with respect to the court challenges program.

Before we begin, I'm going to do the usual housekeeping.

Could you all consult the cards on the table? The cards on the table tell you how to prevent audio feedback. I'll remind you of the little decal on the top to place your earpiece, so we can have a good meeting with nobody getting hurt.

Now, again, keep your earpiece away from all microphones. I'm still trying to figure out how I can speak and be automatically turned off, like I used to with the old phones. I have to remember to keep pressing to take myself off speaking. There you are. That's a little glitch we're trying to fix.

Now, today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. I want to make a few comments for the benefit of members and witnesses.

Please wait until I recognize you by name. For those of you who are here virtually, please raise your hands in the virtual box, so I can recognize you.

Again, all comments should be addressed through the chair.

We have here with us again Blair McMurren, director general, strategic policy and international affairs, and Flavie Major, director, international affairs and human rights, strategic policy and international affairs, from the Department of Canadian Heritage.

Of course we have our legislative clerk, Mr. Méla, whom we all know very well. He's a patient man, indeed.

Resuming debate on the clause-by-clause, we are now looking at the subamendment of Mrs. Rachael Thomas. It's a subamendment to the amendment that we still have to vote on for G-1.

I'm going to read you the subamendment, just to make sure that everybody has it. Of course, I have to first and foremost find it in my notes.

Mrs. Thomas, after the words, “independent of the Government of Canada”, is inserting, “for which the selection criteria shall be made public and the final selection decision shall be tabled in each House of Parliament.”

That then goes with Mr. Serré's subamendment, which Mr. Méla wants to make a comment on.

[Philippe Méla, Legislative Clerk]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

When translating the amendment from Mrs. Thomas, we realized that there was a mistake in the subamendment from Mr. Serré. In the French version, it should read:

"Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms”, not “Canadian Charter of Human Rights.” We simply remove “Human” and add “and Freedoms.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Is that okay with everyone? Good. Everyone's nodding. That's kind of cool. We're getting along nicely today.

We have Mrs. Thomas's subamendment on the table.

Mrs. Thomas, would you like to speak to your subamendment before we open it up for debate?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Chair. I would.

Now that we have this subamendment cleared up and figured out, essentially what we're doing here is assuring that there's independence for the body that is issuing the court challenges program or overseeing the intake process. It is also creating accountability around what that process looks like, and then also accountability because the decisions have to be tabled with the House of Commons.

Again, this is based on witness testimony. We heard that there should be greater independence, greater transparency and greater accountability, so that, no matter what government is in power at the time of the program being administered, it does in fact happen at arm's length and is done in a non-partisan fashion to the greatest extent possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Now I'll open this subamendment up for debate if anyone wants to speak.

Martin.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair, my colleague Ms. Thomas's subamendment is very welcome. I'm glad to see that we're working constructively here. I'm also happy to see that we've found a way to integrate the content of amendment CPC-2 into amendment G-1, which restores the spirit of CPC-2 and ensures greater transparency and accountability. I find this constructive and important. Indeed, it effectively addresses the request by several witnesses.

This subamendment strikes me as entirely reasonable and I encourage my colleagues to support it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Is there anyone else? No? Is anyone opposed to the subamendment?

Yes, Mr. Serré? You're opposed to the subamendment? All right, so we should call a vote.

Do you want a recorded vote? No?

Well, the majority is obviously supporting it.

Are you supporting it, Mr. Noormohamed?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair, I'd like to request a vote, please.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Do the vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Let's call the vote.

(Subamendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

On the motion of Mr. Noormohamed as amended.

Sorry, you had your hand up, Mrs. Thomas. I'm sorry.