Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 4th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting No. 145 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I think almost everybody knows the drill, but I'm supposed to do it anyway.

In front of you, there's a little decal on the table. That's where you will put your device so that it doesn't interfere with interpretation and sound. Also, there's a little square block of words that you need to read, which tells you how to do things so that you don't interfere with sound transmission.

Today, the meeting is in a hybrid format.

I want to remind participants of the following things. You're not allowed to take photographs of the screen or of the room. You can get those afterwards on the public podcast. I will also note that, before you speak, as the chair, I have to recognize you. If you answer a question or if you ask a question, it has to go through the chair. For members participating via Zoom, please note that you have a little “raise hand” icon on your computer. Please click on it if you wish to speak. Again, you need to know that all comments will be made through the chair.

I have one last thing to say. I will shout out “30 seconds” when you have 30 seconds left in your time. I will literally shout it so that you can hear me, because you may be reading something and may not see me if put my hand up.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, September 18, 2024, the committee will resume its study of the protection of freedom of expression.

We have witnesses here to speak to that issue. I would like to welcome the witnesses.

Before I do that, apparently we have one witness who has just come on. I will suspend so we can onboard her. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I resume the meeting.

First, I want to make a comment. There's food in the area there, and I wanted to suggest to everyone that the food is meant to be for members of Parliament only. I'm mentioning it because in the last meeting, one of our members, who had a special dietary requirement, couldn't get it when he came to get food because somebody who is not an MP had eaten it. I would ask anyone in the room who is not an MP to please.... You may have coffee, and you may have juice, but please do not eat the food that is meant for the MPs. Thank you very much.

I will introduce the witnesses.

We have Bruce Pardy, professor of law, Queen's University.

Dania Majid, with the Arab Canadian Lawyers Association, is on the virtual screen.

From Canadian Journalists for Free Expression, we have Carol Off, co-president; and Michelle Shephard, co-president.

From the Canadian Women's Foundation, we have Mitzie Hunter.

We also have Jean‑François Gaudreault‑DesBiens, researcher, as well as Solange Lefebvre, co‑chair, and Maryse Potvin, co‑chair, all from the Chaire de recherche France-Québec sur les enjeux contemporains de la liberté d'expression.

Finally, in the room, we have with us Qmunity: BC's Queer, Trans, and Two-Spirit Resource Centre, represented by Didi Dufresne, director of legal services. Welcome, Didi.

We're going to start now, and every group will have five minutes to make a presentation—only five minutes. If there are more than one of you representing your group, then you have to pick who's going to do the five minutes, or you can share it, but you're still only going to get five minutes. I'll give you a shout when you have 30 seconds to finish. Do not panic if you don't finish your presentation. There is a question and answer segment in which you can elaborate on points you may want to make.

We will begin with Canadian Journalists for Free Expression, starting with Carol Off and Michelle Shephard. They have to leave at 5:30, so I will begin with them for five minutes.

Who is speaking on behalf of the Canadian Journalists for Free Expression, Ms. Off or Ms. Shephard?

[Michelle Shephard, Co-President, Canadian Journalists for Free Expression]

We'll both be speaking.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Can you unmute yourself, please?

[Michelle Shephard]

I actually am unmuted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You'll be sharing five minutes. You'll have two and a half minutes each. I'll give you a shout-out when you have 30 seconds to go.

Thank you. Please begin.

[Michelle Shephard]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon. Thank you for this invitation to address the hearing on this critical issue.

My name is Michelle Shephard. I'm here, as you heard, with Carol Off, my co-president. We're here to represent Canadian Journalists for Free Expression. We're also both long-time journalists in Canada. I spent 21 year with the Toronto Star before leaving to work independently in 2018. I continue to work in the media with various outlets and to produce documentaries. Carol, as I'm sure many of you know, was with CBC for over four decades. Most recently, she was at the helm of As It Happens. She's just back from a book tour for her best-selling book At a Loss for Words.

I know there are a few Canadian journalism organizations, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Excuse me.

Is everybody able to hear?

[Voices]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I cannot hear her at all.

Just hold, please. I'll start you again.

Can we get a sound check, please, guys? I could not hear her at all.

Monsieur Champoux, I know you have super extraordinary hearing, but—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair, I know my superpower is an excellent ear, but sometimes I'm only human.

I can hear what Ms. Shephard is saying in my earpiece. I think the problem is in the room, not with Ms. Shephard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right.

I'll ask you to begin again. We will try to turn up the sound from this end.

Thank you.

[Michelle Shephard]

Okay. Thank you. Please interrupt me if you can't hear.

Thank you again for inviting us here, Madam Chair and everyone in the hearing.

My name is Michelle Shephard. I’m here with my co-president, Carol Off, to represent Canadian Journalists for Free Expression. We are also both long-time journalists in Canada. I spent 21 years at the Toronto Star before leaving in 2018 to work independently. I continue to work with media organizations and to produce documentaries. Carol Off, as I’m sure a lot of you know, was with CBC for 40 years, most recently at the helm of As It Happens. She has just returned from a book tour for her best-selling book At a Loss for Words.

I know there are a few Canadian journalism organizations, so just to be clear, CJFE is the oldest in Canada. We've been in existence for more than 40 years. We’re an independent charity. At present, we're completely run by volunteers, which includes both of us and our board of directors.

What we hope to provide here is a perspective from the front lines of journalism. I can’t overstate just how dire it feels. Simply put, journalists are continually asked to do more with less.

Carol will talk about the news deserts we have in Canada, but I can speak from personal experience about the decline in newsgathering internationally. The beat I enjoyed for so many years with the Star, bringing stories of significance to Canadians from such places as Guantanamo Bay and throughout Africa and the Middle East, just doesn’t exist in the same way today. CBC is now often the sole media outlet reporting from abroad.

Trust in the media is at an all-time low, as we know. We can all criticize the media. As journalists, we do this often. But this loss of trust in legitimate news reporting is not entirely because of the media's failing. It has been engineered. Independent media has been targeted by those who benefit from breaking the public's faith in facts and the truth. That's not just south of the border. It's here in Canada too.

I’ll be honest; we’re both journalists who have reported from conflicts and wars abroad, but we actually had to think long and hard before appearing here today. We passionately believe in a free press, and that it benefits all of us in society, but this issue has become so toxic and partisan that it has become difficult to discuss responsibly. That’s a problem.

One last concern I have, which I know you share on the committee, is how news is disseminated and the prevalence of disinformation. The Media Ecosystem Observatory found in a study that in the year since Meta banned news on its platforms, it’s estimated that there has been a reduction of 11 million news views per day across Instagram and Facebook. That same study found that only 22% of Canadians even realize that legitimate Canadian news has been banned on those platforms. This same group is among the people who say they're still getting their news from Facebook and Instagram.

I'd like Carol to now continue.

[Carol Off, Co-President, Canadian Journalists for Free Expression]

I just want to add that we often call this the post-truth era, and this is of great concern to Canadian Journalists for Free Expression. We have to be able to trust the facts, and we have to agree on what the facts are. If we don't agree on what the facts are, we can't agree on what is true. If we can't agree on what is true, then we are in a serious state as a civil society.

The political philosopher Hannah Arendt said something really important in one of her last interviews:

The moment we no longer have a free press, anything can happen. What makes it possible for [that to happen is if you] are not informed.... If everybody always lies to you, the consequence is not that you believe the lies, but rather that nobody believes anything any longer.... And a people that no longer can believe anything cannot make up its mind.... And with such a people you can then do what you please.

Our emphasis here today at CJFE is to tell you about one narrow aspect of journalism, and that's news gathering as distinct from opinions or commentary. It's a very costly element of journalism. We have news deserts across Canada, people no longer getting access to basic news about their communities. It costs money to send reporters to city hall, to press conferences, to the sites of accidents or crimes. The fact gathering has to be tested with other information, and we need to find reliable witnesses. People need to be able to get this news, and they need to be able to trust it.

The breakdown in trust and in the reliance on reported facts makes it difficult or even impossible to confront crises such as climate change or pandemics, to provide desperately needed information during natural disasters, forest fires, floods and hurricanes, and to report on elections, government hearings like this one and day-to-day events. This cannot be done with media turned over to market forces. Silicon Valley does not care about the city council meeting in Kelowna or the road closures in Huntsville this weekend. That's the job of reporters.

That's the part of journalism we want to draw your attention to here today, because Canadian news gathering is an endangered species.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

The next witness is Mitzie Hunter from the Canadian Women's Foundation.

You have five minutes, please, Ms. Hunter.

[Mitzie Hunter, President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Women's Foundation]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for the opportunity to address the committee today on this very important issue of freedom of expression, which is something that all Canadians hold as part of their individual rights.

My name is Mitzie Hunter. I am president and CEO of the Canadian Women's Foundation. I thank you for the opportunity and the invitation to appear before this committee. I join you today from Toronto, on the traditional territories of the Mississaugas of the Credit, the Anishinabe, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee, the Wendat and the many other nations that have stewarded this land.

The Canadian Women's Foundation has been a national leader in advancing gender justice and equality for over 30 years. As a public foundation supported by donations, we've contributed more than $262 million to support over 3,300 life-transforming programs across Canada addressing gender-based violence. It's key and fundamental to the work that we have been doing for decades. The opportunity to talk about freedom of expression now, but also as we project into the future, is vital.

While the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects freedom of expression, it has long been recognized that this is not an unlimited right. The Canadian Women's Foundation has become increasingly engaged in work to prevent digital harm, because we know that it is often gendered. Hateful and harmful speech in public spaces, media or online often targets women, trans people and non-binary people.

Online hate not only silences people online but discourages dialogue on gender-based violence more broadly. Impacts can be devastating. Survivors face psychological, physical and economic harm. The resulting lack of safety leads many to self-censor or to leave digital spaces, making it a threat to their freedom of speech, democratic engagement and, I would also add, economic opportunities. With research suggesting that one in five women experiences online harassment and that there is a much higher risk for people from marginalized communities, this must be addressed.

Our challenging digital harms initiative is examining online harassment against women and gender-diverse people. Preliminary research results confirm disproportionate impacts of digital harm on women and gender-diverse people with intersecting identities. They reveal that 71% of women and gender-diverse people in Canada think of social media as a public space, similar to the definition of “public place” in section 319 of the Criminal Code. Indigenous, racialized, trans and non-binary communities and people with disabilities experience more negative effects from online violence than do people who are not from those communities.

People most often name the police, lawmakers, policy-makers and the government as those with the most responsibility to stop online violence against women, girls and gender-diverse people. Yet, among those who experience online violence, 55% say that police were ineffective, 53% say that government services were ineffective, and 61% say that lawyers were effective. Canadians expect violence on social media to be handled like violence in other public spaces, and their expectations of police and law enforcement are clearly not being met.

I want to draw attention to Bill C-63, the online harms bill, because it signals that online harms are finally being taken seriously. We recognize legitimate fears of curtailed online freedoms, risk for marginalized communities as police targets, and censoring of diverse voices online. Community consultation with indigenous, Black, racialized and 2SLGBTQIA+ communities is needed, as is disaggregated data that highlights intersectional experiences, because not all groups experience things the same. Bill C-63 also seeks to address the lack of a consistent definition of hate speech, which currently complicates efforts to craft effective policies to address online harm.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds.

[Mitzie Hunter]

I also just want to say that as legislators, policy-makers and tech industry leaders work on solutions, consulting with those most affected will be fundamental to fostering inclusive digital spaces while protecting rights for all.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I now go to the Arab Canadian Lawyers Association. We have Dania Majid for five minutes, please.

[Dania Majid, President, Arab Canadian Lawyers Association]

Good afternoon. My name is Dania Majid, and I'm here representing the Arab Canadian Lawyers Association.

In 2022, we released a landmark report, “Anti-Palestinian Racism: Naming, Framing and Manifestations”, after extensive consultations. Anti-Palestinian racism is a distinct form of racism that silences, excludes, erases, defames or dehumanizes Palestinians or their narratives. It primarily exists to uphold Israel's occupation, apartheid and now plausible genocide against Palestinians by silencing critics of Israel's treatment of Palestinians, in contravention to international laws. This has resulted in a Palestine exception to freedom of expression, a right that isn't extended equally to expression on Palestine, resulting in widespread repression.

In her authoritative August 2024 report, Irene Khan, UN special rapporteur on freedom of expression and opinion, stated, “The conflict in Gaza has unleashed a global crisis of freedom of expression. Rarely has a conflict challenged freedom of opinion and expression so broadly and so far beyond its borders.” She identified three “challenges to freedom of opinion and expression”: “first, attacks on journalists and media, endangering access to information about [Gaza]; second, the suppression of Palestinian voices and views in a discriminatory and disproportionate manner, undermining academic and artistic freedom [and expression more broadly]; and third, the blurring of the boundaries between protected and prohibited speech.”

Anti-Palestinian racism and repression have intensified in Canada over the past 14 months. The threats to livelihoods, reputations and future prospects are used to silence workers' expression on Palestine, even outside the workplace. There have been numerous public reports of health workers, journalists, artists, lawyers and educators who have been doxed, suspended or terminated for calling for an end to the genocide in their social media posts, participating in protests, signing open letters or simply wearing a Palestinian pin or keffiyeh. The most common excuse given was that the person's expression was deemed anti-Semitic or supporting terrorism. However, where allegations are subject to an investigation or tested by the courts, the expression is found to be neither. Nonetheless, the damage is done.

Also concerning is the unprecedented criminalization of Palestinian speech and protest. The past year has seen approximately a hundred arrests of Palestinian protesters in Toronto alone. Some happened months after the protest. Other arrests were late-night tactical police raids for protesters charged with mischief. Students and protesters have also been subjected to unprovoked brutality on campuses and public streets. Most charges end up being withdrawn. However, those charged have lost employment, are traumatized and suffer reputational damage.

Free expression is a fundamental right enshrined internationally and domestically. It guarantees the right to freely express opinions of all kinds, tolerant or offensive, without interference. It protects the key elements of a thriving democracy, including media freedom, political discourse and criticism of governments and states, academic freedom, human rights advocacy and artistic expression. International law and Canadian courts clearly set out that any restriction of this right must be construed narrowly, equally and precisely and not impact the right itself. We should be highly cautious of permitting any further interference.

Canada has already legislated that advocating for genocide or the promotion or incitement of hatred against an identifiable group is a form of prohibited speech. Courts have set the bar very high on this exception and are clear that it does not include expression that is merely disagreeable, objectionable or even racist. Yet governments, police forces, academic administrations, media, cultural spaces and other institutional actors are systemically distorting free expression principles to label Palestinian expression as hate, to justify punitive measures against our protected speech.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds.

[Dania Majid]

We are also concerned that the newly released IHRA handbook will further erode free expression on Palestine by defining criticism of Israel, which is not prohibited expression, as anti-Semitic, infringing on the free expression rights of Jewish, Palestinian and allied communities.

We call on this committee to recognize anti-Palestinian racism and commit to addressing the discriminatory Palestine exception on expression and the unprecedented repression that advocates for a free Palestine are facing.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I would now like to go to Qmunity: BC's Queer, Trans, and Two-Spirit Resource Centre.

Ms. Dufresne.

[Didi Dufresne, Director, Legal Services, QMUNITY: BC's Queer, Trans, and Two-Spirit Resource Centre]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon, esteemed members of the committee.

My name is Didi Dufresne. My pronouns are they, he and she. I am a lawyer and director of legal services for Qmunity, which is a 2SLGBTQIA+ resource centre located in B.C., in Vancouver, on the unceded territory of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh people.

We provide crucial support, connection and leadership for queer, trans and two-spirit communities. These communities, like all Canadians, value and cherish the fundamental right to freedom of expression, yet our history and lived experiences compel us to acknowledge the complex conundrum that exists when that right is wielded to harm and silence others. Freedom of expression is a cornerstone of democracy. It's enshrined in our charter. Censoring expression serves no one, and our community understands this intimately.

We've seen precedent-setting cases from Little Sisters and Neufeld, where victories affirmed the importance of protecting the voices of marginalized groups. However, our experience also teaches us that freedom of expression must not come at the expense of safety, dignity and the existence of others. Words unchecked can and do cause harm.

In the past two years, hateful rhetoric targeting queer, trans and two-spirit people has surged across Canada. This isn't a hypothetical problem. We've witnessed this harm directly. We know from studies, such as that from the Canadian Medical Association Journal, that queer and trans youth are two to five times more likely to attempt suicide—especially trans youth.

At Qmunity, we see the consequences of this harmful rhetoric in our mental health services. We have a counselling program where, in the past year alone, we've lost two of our youth who were waiting to get into the program. That's two youth that we know of, whose parents have reached out to us. It's not a hypothetical risk. Their stories, along with many others, highlight the urgent need for action.

We fund this program solely through private donations. There are 40 people currently on the wait-list. Our wait-list to receive counselling is about nine months. Every month, more people and youth are at risk.

Additionally, I'd like to address that the freedom of expression must include the right to gender expression for all. Regulating people's ability to live authentically—whether this is through debates over bathrooms or restricting gender-affirming care and pronoun usage—doesn't reduce the number of queer and trans people. It forces people back into the closet, stifling their humanity and eroding their mental health. These policies that limit self-expression harm individuals and set regressive precedents for our nation. They contradict the values of inclusion and equity that Canada should stand for.

It wasn't long ago that the queer community had to stand before society to convince people that being gay wasn't a choice. That notion seems silly to us now, yet history is repeating itself. Trans people are real. We're not up for debate.

Let us reflect, as a country, on this opportunity that we have to live, work and exist on these indigenous lands, where we can learn from elders about the history of two-spirit and gender-diverse people, who have lived here since time immemorial.

In many spaces, we once said, “It gets better.” Sadly, today we must confront the reality that, in fact, it gets worse. The rise in hate speech, attacks on gender expression and discriminatory policies are taking a devastating toll on the mental health of especially our youth and seniors. These challenges underscore the urgent need for greater supports, like expanded counselling and social support programs.

Finally, as we engage in this critical dialogue, let us remember that fostering an inclusive Canada requires more than words. It demands investment in programs, public art, education and community outreach to celebrate and counter these harmful narratives. Freedom of expression is not just a legal right; it's a shared responsibility. Let us ensure it's exercised with compassion, care and a commitment to building a Canada where all voices can thrive without fear.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I now go to Mr. Bruce Pardy, professor of law, Queens University, who's here as an individual.

Professor Pardy, you have five minutes.