I have to leave at three....
Evidence of meeting #48 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was crtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #48 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was crtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:40 p.m.
Liberal
2:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
It means that we will not be able to have the end of the round with a Conservative and a Liberal. That's what it means. We will have to end it with Mr. Julian, because we now have 15 minutes left.
If we continued with the round, it would mean that we would have a Conservative person asking the last question, but we won't have the time for a Liberal, so we will have to end it with Mr. Julian.
2:45 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
I have a point of order, Madam Chair.
I have a motion for the committee. If we allow five minutes for the Liberals and two and a half for the Bloc Québécois and NDP, the last five-minute round could be shared by the Conservative and Liberal parties, which would each have two and a half minutes. That's the motion. It's up to you to decide.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Yes, that's a possibility, Mr. Champoux, and I see we have a seconder. I hear nobody shouting nay, so I think we will move with that. It's a good plan.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
I also.... That's as long as I can leave as close as possible to three, because I'm....
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Yes. Thank you.
All right. We're going to go to Mr. Champoux for two and a half minutes.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
I'm sorry; it's the Liberals' turn. You're absolutely right. You see, this throws me off course.
I think we have Tim Louis for five minutes.
October 21st, 2022 / 2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair and Mr. Champoux.
I appreciate the minister, Mr. Owen Ripley and Ms. Mondou being here.
Through you, Madam Chair, I'll direct my questions to the minister.
We're not alone in working on this legislation for fair compensation from these digital platforms to support the free, independent and thriving press that we want. This bill has garnered a lot of interest from other countries that are looking at us as they're drafting similar legislation. We looked to Australia, and you mentioned in earlier testimony that Australia's now looking back at our legislation and that Europe, the U.S. and other countries are looking to us for inspiration.
You and I have had conversations about how other countries are approaching us. Can you speak to how this is the beginning of a wave of countries that are working on the same legislation?
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
Absolutely, Mr. Louis. Thank you for the question.
What we've seen in Canada—you've also seen it in other countries—is that the traditional local and regional press are disappearing. That worries me a lot, and I'm sure it worries everyone from all parties, with no exception. We have to find a way to counterbalance that and to make sure that we have a strong, independent and non-partisan free press, because our country was built on that. Our democracy is built on that. It's the same in the United States and it's the same in Germany, France and Italy.
I had the chance, as you say, to speak with my counterparts. The first one I spoke to was the Australian one, to make sure that I understood the model. That was when we brought in some changes, because there were places where we thought that we could be a bit more transparent, and we made the changes to be more transparent.
I then had the chance to discuss it with people in Germany and in France, and with my counterparts in Mexico and the States. They're very interested, as you said, because the disappearance of these traditional media is bad news for everyone, with no exception. When we had a lot of those traditional media in the middle, we had a more independent and neutral press. They're disappearing, and it's going more to the extremes. The extremes are always bad, Mr. Louis, anywhere in the world, in Canada and in any other country.
That's why the other countries are looking at us to see how we're trying to implement this and what the impact is of the changes we brought in to be more transparent. It was discussed at the G7. It was part of the final communiqué of the G7 work and it played a very big role, so hopefully we'll be able to inspire other countries.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you for that.
You mentioned the importance of supporting local community media. You also mentioned that a broad range of supports exist to make sure that our local stories are told and heard.
Yesterday you announced the rollout of budget 2022 funding. Specifically, you were launching the special measures for journalism, which started during the pandemic. It was $10 million for the local journalism initiative and $40 million for the Canadian periodical fund. It's extremely timely.
We've heard from multiple witnesses. I'm thinking of the Saskatchewan and Alberta weekly newspapers—I believe they came last week—as well as local weekly newspapers and news organizations in my riding of Kitchener—Conestoga. They said that to ensure we keep journalism alive, we need this suite of support measures.
Can you expand on the things that are complementing Bill C-18?
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
Absolutely. As I said at the beginning, this is not a silver bullet. There are other programs that are complementing this: The Canadian journalism labour tax credit supports moving costs and the periodical fund is benefiting so many local media outlets, especially smaller publications in the west. I know that Conservatives, for instance, were worried about this. The periodical fund plays a major role for small outlets, especially in the west.
We've added, as you mentioned, an additional $40 million to the fund in budget 2022. It was announced yesterday. The reaction was extremely positive. We think that with this funding, we'll be able to support an additional 800 news organizations, and most of them—a big, big chunk of them—are small players.
We created the local journalism initiative. It helps news organizations provide coverage in underserved communities.
Those programs complement each other and try to help our system have a strong local and regional independent free press, which is essential for democracy.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you, Minister. I will now move to Martin Champoux.
Martin, you have 2.5 minutes.
2:50 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister Brian Myles, the director of Le Devoir, raised some concerns earlier this week about linguistic duality, among other issues. I also discussed this earlier.
However, another concern will definitely be raised soon. For those who haven't yet seen it coming, the bill contains no provision respecting the collection and sharing of data. We all know that data is crucially important these days. And yet the bill contains no provisions that would require Google, Facebook or any other intermediary to disclose data on the audience of our news media to news businesses.
Do you think that's something we should allow to be negotiated, or should we provide a framework for it in the bill?
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
I'm not sure I understand your question, Mr. Champoux. What do you mean? What type of information would be shared?
2:50 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
When you use a search engine, or when you're on a social media website like Facebook, Instagram or anything else, that site gathers data on our habits; you know that as well as I do. However, that data belongs to Google, Meta or other interests, and the news media don't have access to it. However, that data is very useful to them in forming a clearer picture of their audience and people's interests.
Do you think we should provide a framework for that in the bill, or should we leave the data-sharing issue to negotiations between news businesses and online undertakings?
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
It will be subject to negotiation. As you know, the CRTC will publish reports at the end of the process on the number and type of deals that will have to be negotiated, and so on, without going into the details.
All commercial information will remain protected. However, that won't prevent the CRTC from publishing an audit report on all the deals that have been reached between the platforms and the news media.
2:50 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Talking about reports, Bill C‑18 provides that an auditor's report will be published and submitted to the CRTC on the act's impact on the marketplace.
However, there's no provision to provide parliamentarians with access to that report. Do you think we should have access to the annual report so we can monitor the act's impact on online news in order to improve it over the years?
Please answer that within a few seconds because I am nearly out of time.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
I think everything's going well. As you know, though, some commercial information can't be disclosed.
However, this provision on the annual auditor's report that we've added to the Australian model will make it possible to inform the public on what business deals have been negotiated and reached.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you very much, Minister.
I'm going to go to Peter Julian for two and a half minutes.
2:50 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
In principle, the vast majority of parties definitely support Bill C‑18, as do the vast majority of witnesses we've heard, including community newspapers from Alberta and Saskatchewan. What's more, community representatives in Conservative ridings have said that Bill C‑18 would be an important tool.
However, there has been criticism of the transparency surrounding the involvement of small newspapers and community radio stations, which won't be affected if no amendments are made to change matters. There's also the fact that there aren't really any limits on the arbitration process, which means that the web giants will have every reason to drag out the proceedings rather than negotiate. All those aspects should therefore be improved.
As I understand it, Minister, the department hasn't analyzed these issues. Your message today is that you are open to the possibility of accepting amendments to Bill C‑18 so that it actually makes the improvements we would like to see in the community network and Canadian journalism. Are you open to all those changes?