Evidence of meeting #56 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was exemption.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
It would be, “entered into with news businesses that reflect the diversity of the business models”.
Legislative Clerk
That's right. It continues. The subamendment just adds to that.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Is everyone fine with the subamendment to NDP-7?
Do I need to call a vote, or is it agreed?
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
I think we're good. I just want to make sure that we're not forgetting about the other guys.
November 25th, 2022 / 2:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Ms. Gladu, Ms. Hepfner, Mr. Shields and Mr. Morrice are good with it.
(Subamendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
: For NDP-7, we have Mr. Julian.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Again, my thanks go to Mr. Housefather for his brilliant and methodical approach on this issue. I want to thank CACTUS, which indicated to us the importance of the subamendment that we just adopted.
As far as NDP-7 is concerned, I want to underline that APTN, Dadan Sivunivut and the Fédération nationale des communications and de la culture all offered this important suggestion to ensure that indigenous news outlets are a part of clause 11 and part of the obligations that the web giants have before they can apply for an exemption.
In other words, they are something that needs to be considered. The obligations would include ensuring that a significant portion of indigenous news outlets benefit from them and that they contribute to the sustainability of those outlets in a way that supports the provisions of news content by and for indigenous peoples.
It also includes that these agreements have been entered into business models that provide services to all markets and diverse populations, including anglophone and francophone communities, official language minority communities and Black and other racialized communities. There's no doubt that this amendment helps to strengthen the diversity component of the legislation.
I want to thank all those who testified before us and made those important suggestions. I hope that this amendment will be adopted and improve Bill C-18.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
If it's okay with the committee, could I get approval for Mr. Morrice to speak to NDP-7?
Green
Mike Morrice Green Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you for that, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to propose that PV-2 be considered as a subamendment to NDP-7.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
The legislative clerk has said that you can't move amendments. You can just speak on NDP-7 here.
Green
Mike Morrice Green Kitchener Centre, ON
Okay.
I'd like to speak to the fact that currently NDP-7 doesn't include the need to include community radio stations and community broadcasters, which is referenced in what is currently PV-2, encouraging participation of private, public and community-based broadcasters. Doing so is supported by organizations like the Community Radio Fund of Canada and the National Campus and Community Radio Association.
My understanding is that someone else must now potentially introduce this as a subamendment. Is that correct, Chair?
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
It is correct, but you're not eligible to introduce a subamendment. You can only speak to what we're talking about here, NDP-7.
Go ahead, Mr. Housefather.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Just for clarification, I want to mention to Mr. Morrice, who may have just missed that, that there was also an amendment to NDP-7 that came from NDP-6 that now starts the whole clause off by talking about a wide range of news outlets in both the non-profit and for-profit sectors. It certainly encompasses things like community radio stations and other non-profit community-based broadcasting, because it was amended.
Conservative
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Thank you.
Is there anything else on NDP-7 as amended?
(Amendment as amended agreed to: yeas 10; nays 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
NDP
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Congratulations. It's the first one we've had.
As I said, PV-2 now cannot be moved due to a line conflict, so we move to NDP-8.
We welcome once again Mr. Julian.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
This amendment comes from the National Federation of Communications and Culture, and it seeks to provide for consultation regarding exemptions.
We move that the following be added to Clause 11 of the bill:
(a.1) the Commission has held public consultations in accordance with any conditions that its Chairperson may specify;
Our amendment also adds the following paragraph to Clause 11:
(5) The order remains in effect for a period of not more than five years and, subject to this section, may be renewed.
Consultation would provide greater guidance on exemptions and, in turn, limit them.
I'd like to thank the National Federation of Communications and Culture for recommending these important changes to the amendment.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Is there any discussion on NDP-8?
Seeing no other hands, we will call for the vote.
(Amendment agreed to: yeas 10; nays 0)
Thank you. You're on a roll.
We still have a little time. Let's move to CPC-13.2.
We'll give the floor to Mrs. Thomas. I know that everybody is jittery over airplanes, so if we can wrap this one up, we will see where we are for time after that.
Go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Again, it returns to a previous point made, which is that more and more Canadians are becoming skeptical of news and government engagement, wanting to be reassured that there is no undue political influence. That is something we are seeing from more than half of the Canadian population who have chimed in on recent polls.
Essentially, CPC-13.2 removes ministerial discretion, and it basically mandates the creation of mechanisms to include news businesses not provided for in the initial exemption order. With that, it removes cabinet and what might become a partisan decision, or at least would have the appearance thereof, so it takes that out.
It also makes sure, again, that there is great certainty for eligible news sources in ensuring them that there is no vague grey area, but rather that the terms are clearly set. Those wishing to enter into negotiations will have the opportunity to do so without being locked out.
We saw that in Australia. We saw that local new sources were locked out, so basically the big players made it to the table. They entered into negotiations with DNIs, and then the government said, “Okay, that's good; we've reached this magical number of x million dollars, so no more negotiation is necessary.”
My concern and the concern of many local news outlets is that the government of the day would perhaps do the same here in Canada. This magic number here in Canada is surmised to be around $330 million, so the concern from local news outlets is that once that number is reached, the government will no longer require negotiations to be entered into. Of course, that leaves these little guys out.
That being the case, and wanting to defend our local communities as well as ethnic media, I am choosing to move CPC-13.2 as a protective mechanism for them.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. I will be very quick.
I do recall from the evidence from Australia that small media outlets got together, and we did hear evidence of substantial success of small media outlets disproportionate even to larger elements from one of our earliest witnesses from Australia, who did appear in the very early hours of Australian time.
While we appreciate the intent of this amendment, it's important to note that exemptions aren't permanent. The CRTC can re-evaluate the relevance of an exemption if an influx of new news organizations should occur.
We also already have a series of programs dedicated to supporting journalism start-ups, which Conservatives have historically fought against, so we will be opposed.