Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2022

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

I just want to be really clear here for the benefit of anyone who might be listening, because I realize that these amendments are not being read into the record and so sometimes it can be difficult to follow what is happening.

I'd like to bring some clarification. Right now we're on amendment CPC-19, which asks that this bill would be amended to include organizations that employ fewer than two journalists. It would also include organizations in underserved communities and journalists who work on a freelance or part-time basis, who are maybe shared between these different ethnic organizations.

Amendment CPC-19 actually stands up for local newspaper outlets and ethnic newspaper outlets by making sure that it encompasses them if there's only one journalist working there, including perhaps a part-time or a freelance journalist. It's an extremely inclusive amendment and one that was asked for.

I'd like to contrast that with amendment NDP-16, for which the Liberals and the NDP have, of course, expressed their support. Amendment NDP-16 still insists that there must be two full-time journalists and that those journalists could be a partner or an owner in the news business. However, make no mistake: It still requires that there be a minimum of two full-time journalists.

Let's be really clear. For Mr. Bittle to speak on behalf of the Liberals and to say we heard from the big boss at Unifor, which is a massive union, that we need more journalists to be hired—sure. If you lock out the little guys because they only have one journalist and you don't even give them a chance to access this funding so that they could hire more journalists, it is incredibly disingenuous. Of course there is no eye contract maintained right now, because you should be ashamed. That is ridiculous—

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

I was just reviewing my notes. I have no issues with what Mrs. Thomas is saying and she can continue the Conservative slow roll of this bill in support of Facebook and Google, with which the Conservatives have stood side by side, day after day, bill after bill, and they will continue to do so. It's they who should be ashamed of where this has gone and where it is going, because I think Canadians expect all the parties of this House to stand up in support of them and not for foreign tech giants.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Bittle. I don't know if that actually was a point of order, but there we go.

Mr. Waugh, your hand is up.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm just going to say this because we heard testimony from Saskatchewan and Alberta on the one journalist. The point I want to make is that Bill C-18 has favoured the public broadcaster and has favoured the big broadcasting outfits that we have in this country.

First of all, in rural Canada, they expected maybe $30,000 to $50,000 to help them to hire an employee through Google and Facebook. That's what this bill set out to do when we first started: to give these little newspapers, ethnic newspapers and other media a lifeline for a reporter. Unfortunately, with the NDP joining the Liberals, what we're now seeing is you can lop off a zero. They're going to to get $300. They're going to get $500 instead of $30,000 a year or $50,000 a year to hire reporters.

It's despicable, Madam Chair, that when I look at ours and we heard from groups like Saskatchewan and Alberta.... I know we didn't hear from B.C., but I brought Alberta and Saskatchewan to the table. We clearly heard from them that—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

A point of order, Madam Chair.

I'd respectfully ask my colleague Mr. Waugh to lower his microphone, which is a little high. We're having difficulty hearing him. It would help the interpreters.

Thank you very much.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you.

Is that a bit better, Martin?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

That's much better.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

On this bill, when it does come out, in Bill C-18 clearly the losers are local newspapers in our communities in Canada. They expected a lot more from Facebook and Google.

On the Conservative side, we realized that you can't hire anybody for $300 to $500 a month. These people in rural Canada expected $30,000 to $50,000 a year to hire the reporters needed in this country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Waugh.

Clerk, is there anyone else with their hand up?

[The Clerk]

There is Mrs. Thomas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I do believe the floor was mine after the non-point of order raised by Mr. Bittle.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I apologize, Mrs. Thomas. I thought you were finished making your point, but fair enough. Go ahead.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

My point stands. I'm a bit dumbfounded or baffled—not surprised—and saddened and grieved by the disingenuous nature of my NDP and Liberal colleagues on the fact that they claim to stand up for these local newspapers.

Day after day after day, Mr. Julian—he just did it a few moments ago—pretends to be standing up for the Saskatchewan newspapers and the Alberta newspapers, these organizations or news businesses that are trying really hard just to make a go of it, yet he has withdrawn his motion that actually would have made a meaningful difference and instead has succumbed to Liberal pressure in still insisting that there would be two full-time journalists.

We know how this is going to go. We know that the NDP, the Liberals and likely the Bloc will all vote in favour of NDP-16 and likely unfortunately will shut down CPC-19, but let it be stated on the record that CPC-19 was the only amendment put forward that truly stood up for the small newspaper organizations and ethnic media, those organizations that the minister claimed this bill was meant to help.

In fact, this bill has been absolutely gutted and placed in favour of the large broadcasters and large newspaper conglomerates. That's a sad day for Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mrs. Thomas.

Is there anyone else on the floor, Clerk?

[The Clerk]

No, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Seeing no hands up virtually, I shall then ask the question. Shall CPC-19 carry?

Please count the vote, Clerk.

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We will now move to CPC-19.1.

Go ahead, Ms. Gladu.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair. I'd like to withdraw CPC-19.1.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

We'll now go to NDP-14.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm pleased to report that in favour of NDP-16, I'll withdraw NDP-14 and withdraw NDP-15.

NDP-15, of course, is no longer needed because NDP-3 passed, and I look forward to our vote on NDP-16.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Following NDP-14 and NDP-15, which were withdrawn, we have PV-5.

Go ahead, Mr. Morrice.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madame Chair.

I believe PV-5 is similarly seeking to do what NDP-16 is seeking to do in terms of standing up for independent online news publishers of Canada, and so I'm open to conversation from the committee on intentions for either one.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Are you moving this or are you withdrawing it, Mr. Morrice? I'm not quite clear.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I'm happy to have it stand and to hear from other committee members, and on the merits of NDP-16 in its place as well.