Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 58 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Today's meeting is taking place pursuant to the order of Tuesday, May 31, 2022. The committee is resuming clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-18, An Act respecting online communications platforms that make news content available to persons in Canada.

Today's meeting is in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of Thursday, June 23, 2022. Members attending in the room know by now what to do to get your interpretation. Members who are in the hybrid format, because we've been doing this for a while as parliamentarians, also know what to do to find your interpretation with that little globe thing at the bottom of your screen.

Please wait until I recognize you by name to activate your microphone, and turn it off as soon as you have spoken. Otherwise, we have that horrible clashing sound of my voice ringing like a banshee in the meeting when I try to speak.

We have with us today witnesses from the Department of Canadian Heritage. We have Thomas Ripley, Michel Sabbagh, Joelle Paré and Frederick Matern. They are here to advise, to facilitate and to interpret any of the clauses of the bill with which you wish to deal.

We'll begin with BQ-3 and Monsieur Champoux—

Mr. Waugh, go ahead.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Before we get under way here with clause-by-clause consideration, out of courtesy to Justice Cromwell, as we have a motion to bring him to committee, I'm wondering, Madam Chair, if I could suggest the following. Because we are progressing pretty well on Bill C-18, I suggest we ask the clerk to arrange for Justice Cromwell to come to committee on December 13 out of respect for his time.

As you all know, Hockey Canada's new board will be announced on Saturday, December 17, and we wanted Justice Cromwell here before it proceeds with its new board.

If that's okay with everyone, I circled the date of Tuesday, December 13.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Kevin, the clerk has already contacted Justice Cromwell, so I will let her report on what happened with her discussion with him.

Go ahead, Aimée.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Aimée Belmore]

I have indeed contacted Justice Cromwell, and he is receptive to coming to the committee.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

I can't hear a word you're saying.

[The Clerk]

Sorry; there's a volume issue in the room that we're trying to sort through. I'm sorry. In the interim, I have asked that the room volume be turned up, but if you could put in your earphones, I'm afraid that will have to be the....

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Excuse me, Aimée. Because we are all committee members, I didn't ask, but has everyone actually concluded the microphone testing and made sure they're using the mikes the House of Commons says they should use?

[The Clerk]

All the witnesses are in person, so there were no tests to do for today's meeting.

As to the question about Justice Cromwell, I have reached out to him, and he has indicated that he is available to come to committee on both Tuesday, December 13, and Friday, December 16. He has, however, indicated a preference for Friday, December 16. I will leave that with members of the committee. He has also indicated that at least two to three other people will be accompanying him.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Aimée.

I don't know if the committee will be meeting on Friday, December 16, but it is up to the committee to make a decision about that. If the House rises before December 16 and the committee wants to meet on December 16, are there resources available for us to do so, Aimée?

[The Clerk]

If the committee intends to meet on the 16th, I wouldn't want to get out in front and we would of course need to ask, but I'm certain that the resources would be there to support the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Marilyn.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Chair, I would suggest that out of an abundance of caution, maybe we should go with the 13th. I know it's not the judge's favourite, but at least we know that the meeting wouldn't be pre-empted and we wouldn't need anybody to stay longer at Christmas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I agree with you, Marilyn. I think that may be a very wise decision, because we want to hear from him prior to the board's consent. I also know that if we have finished clause-by-clause study and we are able to do that meeting, that we could, if necessary.... I think the clerk was telling me that there is an indication that we might be able to get three hours. I don't know. It's whatever.

Go ahead, Aimée.

[The Clerk]

Mr. Bittle has his hand up in the room.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Madam Chair, I'm in favour of the motion. I think it's wise, Mr. Waugh, to schedule a date, but I know we do have a priority on clause-by-clause consideration. The only thing I would amend is that it be December 13, unless clause-by-clause study has not yet been completed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right.

That's not an official motion, but does everyone in the room agree with what Chris had to say?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

There's nodding around, so we can move on, then.

I will go to BQ-3. Obviously, whoever is replacing Mr. Champoux may want to speak to this amendment.

Is there a BQ member in the room?

[The Clerk]

There is, Dr. Fry.

Mr. Champoux just walked in. We might require one second for him to get himself installed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right.

While he's settling himself, I will tell everyone that if we adopt BQ-3, CPC-17 and CPC-17.1 cannot be moved, due to a line conflict.

Mr. Champoux, you have the floor.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair, I just arrived because I had to give a little speech in the House.

I would just ask you to please give me 30 seconds to find my documents.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Shall we suspend for 30 seconds or a minute to allow Martin to get his act in order?

Martin, you can indicate to us when you're ready.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

BQ‑3, relating to eligible news businesses, proposes to amend paragraph 27(1)(b) of Bill C‑18, by replacing line 4 on page 10 with the following:(b) produces news content of public interest that is primarily focused

It's a principle of journalism to serve the public interest, and it's recognized as a function of a news business. We want to add the words “public interest” to the term “news content”, as the latter is rather vague and imprecise.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Martin, your amendment says:

produces news content of public interest that is primarily focused

Is “that is primarily focused” being removed, and is the period being put in after “interest”?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have the French version in front of me, Madam Chair. I imagine that it can be translated.

The amendment only proposes to add “of public interest” to line 4 on page 10, without replacing any part of the sentence.