Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 13th, 2022

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I fully agree. The federal government requires HR policies in place to ensure organizations indicate and educate on what's acceptable behaviour, set out the timely follow-up that's required—third party or court interventions—and set out the sanctions for those who offend. Sports Canada has to have a role in oversight to ensure that these fundamentals are in place, with the ability to withdraw funding for non-compliance.

Thank you so much, Justice, for your help.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, MP Gladu.

Our final round of five minutes will go to MP Louis from the Liberal Party.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that.

I also want to thank you, Justice Cromwell, for being here and for your time and your work on this report. You've probably been closer than any of us to this situation, so it's really valuable that you're here. I appreciate it.

Most of the questions have been asked. That just shows how important these issues are. I don't mind saying it again.

In your report, you found a third reserve fund. Now we know that there are three funds to date—the national equity fund; the participant legacy fund and then that undisclosed subpart of the insurance rate stabilization fund.

After you interviewed Brian Cairo, the Hockey Canada chief financial officer, you said:

Hockey Canada became concerned that this change on the financial statements inflated the NEF balance artificially, which might signal a large pool of funds set aside for potential claimants and thus might increase the likelihood of additional claims.

We're talking about transferring money from one fund to another due to the concern with optics. You've said today that confidence in that board was gone. Do you feel that Hockey Canada now understands the level this was at? What level of confidence do you have, moving forward, that things will change and that these reserve funds will change? What message do you think has been sent to Hockey Canada?

[Thomas Cromwell]

I really don't want to speculate or say what my personal level of confidence is as to whether my recommendations will be put into effect. I was asked whether I had evidence that action was going to occur, and I related the steps that I know, as all of us know, have been taken.

I really don't feel comfortable expressing a level of confidence one way or the other, because my task was to lay out what I hoped was a good path forward, and it's very much up to the members in the organization to decide whether it agrees with my assessment.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I do respect your saying that. Thank you. I think what you said a few minutes ago was that some of the recommendations in your interim report had already been taken under consideration. Hopefully that's a positive step.

Earlier we touched on it briefly. What about the issue of players who are injured but unaware of some of these reserve funds? Hockey Canada stated that some of these funds were specifically set aside for non-insured injuries. With the lack of paperwork or the lack of information available, what message is being sent to these players who were paying into these funds but not able to access them?

[Thomas Cromwell]

I think there are a couple of things. One is that, as I've said probably too many times already, one of the critical recommendations we came up with was to have a much more transparent and clear policy framework around these issues.

I don't want to get too technical, but I think it's also perhaps worth noting that we can be talking about different kinds of insurance coverage. For example, when you have a moment, you can have a look at the little chart that we have at page 150 of the report.

That can be found on page 165 of the French document.

In table form, it sets out the kind of insurance that was in place, according to our information. One of them was liability insurance. In other words, if someone does something and is at fault and might be held legally responsible for being at fault, that's the kind of insurance that would deal with that. We also note that there's accidental death and dismemberment insurance. That's the kind of coverage that would be available for people who are injured in a true accident. In that instance, nobody is legally at fault. I think it's important not to mix up those two kinds of coverage. It's clear, I think, from what we've heard, that there needs to be greater clarity on the part of Hockey Canada as to what is available in both baskets and how the board is, ultimately, going to decide what's going to happen.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

You mentioned that transparency in policy is critical. Also, financial transparency is obviously critical. The public doesn't have access to Hockey Canada's financials, but the members do. When you spoke, Hockey Canada said its members were free at anytime to ask directors of the management team for financial information. According to your report, “Members can only raise issues if they are able to identify them.”

What were some of the issues regarding communication between Hockey Canada and organizations under Hockey Canada?

[Thomas Cromwell]

I think, as you'll see from the report, the information we got from members was a bit of a mixed bag. Some members felt that they were well advised and that they understood, in general terms, what these funds were available for. Other members felt they were much more in the dark. We also note, of course, that Hockey Canada is a national umbrella organization. Tens of thousands of people operate under that general umbrella up through their local and provincial organizations.

I think it's pretty tough to take the temperature, collectively, of how people are feeling about what they know. We discovered, as I say, that it was a mixed bag, if I can use that expression, and we have recommended that further steps be taken to try to make sure the information gets through and there's consistency in decision-making.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Mr. Louis.

We're now going to wrap up the hour and a half. We want to thank the Honourable Thomas Cromwell for his time.

I know you had to get up very early in B.C. I would also like to acknowledge your associates who are with you today, Ms. Effendi along with Ms. Prince.

Thank you to all three witnesses for your candid answers concerning Hockey Canada.

Honourable Cromwell, I think your report was very timely reading as we move forward to Saturday in terms of what happens with Hockey Canada and their board. I know they have nine people nominated but, as you mentioned, they will decide on Saturday if, in fact, those nine or others will join them around the board table.

Thank you very much. We'll let you go now.

Mr. Lemire, on your motion—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Ms. Belmore, can you please tell me if it is my turn to speak or that of Mr. Champoux ?

Mr. Champoux, it seems it is your turn.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Mr. Champoux, do we have permission to distribute your motion to members?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Okay.

We'll suspend after this for five minutes or so in order to get the room ready for the in camera session.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Chair, would you like me to read the motion?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

I would.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

That, as part of its study on safe sport in Canada, the committee study the directions and implementation framework for the Canadian Sport Policy Renewal (2023‑2033) from Sport Canada (Sport Information Resource Centre) that will come into effect in 2023; That, in order to do so, the committee: (1) pursue as its primary objective to ensure that the directions and actions to be taken by Sport Canada under the Canadian Sport Policy Renewal will result in a significant shift in the culture and mindset of sport; (2) allocate two meetings after the holidays, on January or February 2023, to invite Sport Canada and the Minister of Sports, the Hon. Pascale St‑Onge, to testify for a period of two hours each; (3) request an update from Sport Canada on its consultation and planning for the renewal of the Canadian Sport Policy for the next decade, as well as a detailed plan for the new Policy, setting out the strategic directions and objectives to be pursued and the measures to be put in place as part of the implementation of the Canadian Sport Policy Renewal 2023‑2033; (4) request that such documents be filed with the clerk of the committee and forwarded to the members of the committee no later than 48 hours prior to the testimony of Sport Canada and the Minister of Sport; (5) report its observations and recommendations to the House on the new Canadian Sport Policy 2023‑2033.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Okay.

The interpreter didn't have a copy of the motion but we all heard it.

We'll go to Ms. Gladu first and then Mr. Bittle.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to clarify something.

I like your motion, Mr. Champoux. Having said that, we want to have two meetings after the holidays, but we don't want to confirm the exact dates, because sometimes witnesses can't come.

Is that clear?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Yes, absolutely.

By the way, I should point out that I made a small mistake, because there was an annotation on my sheet. The committee's second request should read: “set aside two meetings after the holidays, either in January or February 2023.”

Ms. Gladu, perhaps that makes it clearer. We leave ourselves an open door for the availability of witnesses.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

That is excellent.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you.

Mr. Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Just to clarify, are we continuing on with this in public or are we moving in camera? You had mentioned moving in camera.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

What do we want to do? It's the committee's choice, right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, and then we can move in camera for the business part of the meeting.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I'd like to raise a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Fry's microphone is not open and the interpreters cannot interpret.