Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 13th, 2023

[Charles Slowey, Assistant Deputy Minister, Community and Identity, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Just to add, I'm not aware of its being part of that training. We'd have to go back and verify.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay.

Concerns have been raised. I think the minister received correspondence in this regard as well. One of the concerns that was raised was by Kenneth Stern, who wrote in The Guardian that “as the American Jewish Committee's antisemitism expert, I was the lead drafter of what was then called the 'working definition of antisemitism'”. He suggests that there are concerns with that definition because it is less clear. One of the concerns that has been raised is that white supremacists, the most vicious anti-Semites of all—and I reference the flying of the Nazi flag—can find loopholes through that definition that are not available for them to use through the Jerusalem Declaration on Antisemitism.

Are you aware of those concerns that have been raised?

[Mala Khanna]

I am not aware of those concerns that have been raised. We developed, working with UNESCO and the special envoy, the training that was done, but I am not sure if it contains the references you are referring to.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Chair, if you would like me to continue, I will continue with pleasure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry. I keep muting myself, and then I forget that I'm muted.

Your time is up, Peter. We'll go into the five-minute second round.

I begin with a Conservative member for five minutes.

Go ahead, Ms. Lantsman.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thanks, Madam Chair.

Sitting here, I think Canadians watching this.... I'm still unsure as to why it took so long. You said that on August 19 the contract was suspended. Is there a difference between cancelled, terminated and suspended in the view of the department—just a yes or no?

[Mala Khanna]

Yes.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Why wasn't it cancelled and terminated, and in that case when was it cancelled and terminated?

[Mala Khanna]

It was suspended on August 19, and it was terminated on September 23. The reason for that is, pursuant to the agreement that was in place at the time, 30 days' notice had to be provided to the applicant. In this case, that was when the 30 days were up.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Wow. With a long list of clearly anti-Semitic, anti-French, anti-Black tweets, you'd still respect the 30 days. I find that shocking. There's now a new date that we know: September 23. On August 19 it was suspended. It should have been terminated, and I think Canadians at home would agree.

How many people work in communications at the Department of Canadian Heritage?

[Mala Khanna]

I don't know the exact number, but—

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Just an approximate....

[Mala Khanna]

Maybe around 100.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

How many people do you think monitor social media? I assume all of those 100 people have access to a basic search engine like Google.

[Mala Khanna]

We do have a team that monitors social media. There are 24 accounts the department has and 10,000 tags of the department every month, but there is monitoring that is done by the department's social media team.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

To your knowledge, Laith Marouf never came up in any media scan from the department before you heard about this, maybe in the mainstream media or from that call from the chief of staff?

[Mala Khanna]

That's correct.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

In a press release in April 2022, you have Laith Marouf's name, you have the minister's name and you have two quotes. Who approved those quotes?

[Mala Khanna]

The department looked at the quotes, and ultimately recommended they be approved by the minister.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Now the department is putting out communication with Laith Marouf's name in it, with the minister's name in it, presumably together, patting each other on the back for $133,000 of over $600,000 that the Government of Canada has given to this, frankly, anti-Semite. Nobody in the department, in a team of 100 people, has ever come across a single tweet, for which there's a long list, if you want to see it, of his vile tweets. Is that correct?

[Mala Khanna]

That is correct.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Today, The Globe and Mail says that Laith Marouf at one point was barred from entering Canada and was interviewed by CSIS. This happened in 2009.

Is there any interdepartmental communication about anybody who applies? Presumably, Mr. Marouf's name was on the application when he applied for CMAC funding. Is there any conversation between the ministry of heritage and anybody else in government about the people who apply for taxpayer dollars from the Government of Canada? Answer yes or no.

[Mala Khanna]

Not that I am aware of. There have been interdepartmental discussions around processes and ensuring that we are all learning from one another in terms of best practices. However, in terms of reviewing individual applications between departments, I don't think so.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Will there be anything like a vetting process in the future included in everything the department is trying to do to right this very wrong thing that happened?

[Mala Khanna]

The review process that we have put into place since this unfortunate situation came up is what we have been focused on up to now. The Privacy Act is an issue that we would need to be very mindful of in looking at the additional sharing of information between departments, but we are—