Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 13th, 2023

[Mala Khanna]

That's correct—and the Canada School of Public Service. We are working to develop other training on anti-Semitism, because combatting anti-Semitism is an integral part of Canada's anti-racism strategy. We know that we need to ensure that there is a continuing awareness and understanding of the way in which anti-Semitism is experienced. That includes in the public service.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I understand. I agree. What I'm basically understanding, though, is that because of this incident, we're trying to figure out all the.... You make lemonade out of lemons.

You now have a situation in which the Jewish Public Servants' Network, Simon Wiesenthal, the Public Service Alliance and Professor Cotler are working with the department to create anti-Semitism training that can be rolled out across government and across departments. Is that correct?

[Mala Khanna]

That is correct, yes.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

That is a good thing.

The other thing I want to know, if it's okay to come back to you, is who the attorney working with the department on providing you advice related to the contract was. Was that person in Canadian Heritage or were they an attorney in Justice?

[Mala Khanna]

They are Department of Justice counsel, but they work through Canadian Heritage.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Did you have trouble accessing that counsel? Is that why there was such a long time in terms of providing...or was that not the part of the delay? Was it not the legal advice that caused the delay?

[Mala Khanna]

I would say that the time that it took was not isolated to legal advice. It was the length of time it took the system to kick in, and I acknowledge that it took too long.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Let's look at the new attestation and new agreement. How long did it take from the time that Minister Hussen was here at committee until that agreement and attestation were completed? When did the department approve the new attestation and agreement?

[Mala Khanna]

The new attestation was posted online on December 14. I would have to get back to you on when it was approved.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

As you've said, that new agreement basically now allows immediate termination for cause, and there will never have to be any more delays if a person is found to have been violating either the Charter of Rights or the anti-racism strategy. Is that correct?

[Mala Khanna]

That is correct. There is now the option for the minister to terminate the agreement immediately.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you so much.

My five minutes are done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You had 30 seconds left, but that's okay.

I'm going to move now to the third round, which was requested unanimously by the committee.

I begin with Kevin Waugh, for the Conservatives.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, guests, for being here and thank you for staying here a little longer.

Was there a demand to repay the full amount? We've talked about the $133,000 that we now know has not been repaid. You've gone to a third party to collect it. My first question is whether there was a demand to repay the full amount and, if so, could we get the letter that the department sent to recover this money?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I think that was a question, Mr. Waugh, by Mr. Housefather.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Okay.

[Mala Khanna]

Yes, we will get that for you. The amount that was requested was $122,661. There was a holdback of $11,000 that remained, which was not paid out, so what we requested to have back was $122,661.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Is there any penalty for failure to repay the $122,000? I mean, this has gone on month after month here. What actions can the department or our government take? You're paying a third party, kind of a tax collector now, and there is obviously commission involved in that too. Is there a date by which to get all this money back into the government's coffers?

[Mala Khanna]

There is a very strong interest in getting that money back. The first attempt was by demanding the money back. When that didn't produce, then a third party was sought, which has been attempting to get the money from the organization. Since December, five attempts have been made. We want to ensure that we allow that process to unfold and that the minister is also looking at other options including legal options.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

What would other options be?

[Mala Khanna]

It would be possible for the minister to take legal action.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

I'm concerned. You admitted it. First, there were 1,100 applications, and at first, CMAC did not qualify. You stated that it did not make the grade on the....

Yes, go ahead.

[Mala Khanna]

As a point of clarification, it wasn't that it was not eligible. There were a number of other projects that were deemed to be the cream of the crop. Because there were 1,100 projects.... It wasn't that it was ineligible, and then found to be eligible. It was just not chosen.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

I'm really concerned that you've attempted five times since December, two or three months now.... You've not had any correspondence, I believe, from CMAC, on recovering the $122,000.

[Mala Khanna]

We have had some correspondence from CMAC. It has not yet paid the money back, though.