Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 13th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 65 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

As you know, the meeting is going to be hybrid, as we have been continuing according to the House of Commons order adopted on June 23, 2022.

Even though it is not mandated to wear masks, I would like to remind the committee that it is advisable, since the World Health Organization has reiterated that this is still a pandemic of COVID. Those of you who are in Ontario know that there have been lots of cases going to the emergency room, so it's just a good idea to protect yourself and your colleagues.

Please remember not to take screenshots of the meeting or of the video.

I want to remind you to please address anything that you have to say through the chair, and do not speak until the chair recognizes you by name. It's as simple as that.

Those of you who are witnesses know how to access interpretation. There is a little button next to you, and you can access interpretation in English or in French.

I'm going to begin now by welcoming the witnesses from the Department of Canadian Heritage: Mala Khanna, associate deputy minister, and Charles Slowey, assistant deputy minister, community and identity.

As you know, we would like to begin the discussion of the Canadian Heritage's contract with the Community Media Advocacy Centre.

I would inform the witnesses that they have five minutes. It isn't five minutes each; it's five minutes for your group, so you may decide who speaks when and how. I will give you a heads-up when you have about a minute or 30 seconds to go. I will say it out loud, because I know that sometimes you're reading and can't see me if I hold up a card.

I welcome the Department of Canadian Heritage.

Mrs. Khanna, please begin for five minutes.

[Mala Khanna, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

I'm pleased to be with you today to speak about funding granted to and subsequently terminated for the Community Media Advocacy Centre, and the steps the Department of Canadian Heritage has taken to strengthen and clarify our grants and contributions processes.

My name is Mala Khanna. I'm the associate deputy minister for Canadian Heritage, and I'm here with Charles Slowey, who is the assistant deputy minister for the community and identity sector. We are joining you today from the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Let me start by reiterating that anti-Semitism and all forms of hatred have no place in Canada. Organizations and individuals demonstrating hateful and racist behaviour, whether anti-Semitic, anti-francophone, anti-Black, anti-indigenous or against any other racial or religious groups, should not be supported through government funding.

The hateful comments made by Mr. Marouf were shocking and profoundly disturbing to us. Had Canadian Heritage officials been aware of his comments, the project would not have been funded. As the minister did when he was before you on October 7, I would also like to apologize for the pain that this has caused.

In explaining what happened in this situation, I will start with a bit of context.

Canadian Heritage officials negotiate thousands of grants and contributions with individuals and organizations every year. Last year, the department administered $1.7 billion in grants and contributions, representing 80% of its total budget. In delivering these programs, the department follows established review procedures, which include the assessment of the public profile of the organization, the applicant's track record and financial issues.

In this case, the project on paper met the criteria of the anti-racism action program. There was an Internet search done of CMAC as an organization, but it was not done of the individuals who would be performing the work, because nothing came up after the search of CMAC. Had hateful comments turned up, the project would not have been funded.

On July 26, the minister's office informed me by phone that there was an issue that would need to be looked into concerning anti-Semitism in one of our projects. On August 2, I received information from the minister's office via email about the case, including one of the offensive tweets. Between August 2 and August 19, the department determined how the individual was connected to the project, reviewed the contractual obligations, sought legal advice and ultimately suspended the project on August 19. The minister then terminated the agreement with CMAC, and the department is pursuing the recovery of funds that were paid to CMAC.

At the October 7 meeting, the minister acknowledged that the time it took to suspend and terminate the agreement once we were informed of the hateful comments could have been shorter. I agree with him. We have learned from this experience and have taken steps to strengthen this process and shorten the timelines.

At the October 7 meeting, Minister Hussen also stated that he had asked the department to conduct a full review of the existing process. As a result of this process, funding applications now explicitly state that projects that espouse hatred or discrimination are not eligible.

In addition, applicants are now asked to certify, in writing, that they will not undermine the Anti-Racism Strategy and will respect the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Canadian Human Rights Act. The minister now has the option to immediately terminate a contract. We are conducting an online public information search on the organization and the individuals identified to work on the project. Program officers have received training on the new criteria and on anti-racism and anti-Semitism.

Using the new audit process, we reviewed each of the active and funded agreements, approximately 350 in total and approximately 200 additional applications, which fall under Canada's Anti-Racism Strategy. Funds are now flowing back to the communities, where they belong, so that groups can continue to undertake this important work.

We are also undertaking a broader review of all Canadian Heritage programs and the results of this review will help us refine and improve our processes.

The department has undertaken significant work to address the serious issues that have been highlighted in this situation.

We would be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Ms. Khanna.

Now I'm going to begin the question and answer session. We begin with the first round of six minutes for the Conservatives.

Mrs. Thomas, please begin for six minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

I have a quick clarification here, Ms. Khanna. You said that an Internet search was done, but that individuals weren't looked at, only CMAC was. It was blatantly obvious to the general public that there were only two individuals working for CMAC. That's on the public record. That is Mr. Marouf and his wife.

Given the small nature of this organization, I'm curious as to why an Internet search wasn't done on them as individuals since they are the organization.

[Mala Khanna]

The processes that were followed were the established processes. An Internet search was done of the organization. Because nothing problematic turned up, they did not go further. That is what has now been adjusted. In the review we have done since, we are now going through and looking at the board of directors, the executive director, and individuals associated with the projects that are listed in the application. That work now is being done as a result of the learning we have had through this experience.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

You said that an email was sent to you by the minister's office, to the department, on August 2. I'm curious as to which minister's office this was.

[Mala Khanna]

It was Minister Hussen's office.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

That was sent on August 2, but then funding wasn't asked to be revoked until August 22 by Minister Rodriguez. Is that correct?

[Mala Khanna]

No, it was on August 19 that the contract was suspended.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

That's interesting, because Minister Rodriguez testified something very different at this committee. He actually said he wasn't made aware of this until August 22, at which point he asked for funding to be revoked.

Would you be willing to table the email that was received?

[Mala Khanna]

Do you mean the email that was received on August 2?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

You said there was an email received asking for funding to be revoked.

[Mala Khanna]

No, on August 19 the contract was suspended with the organization.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Would you have documentation of that?

[Mala Khanna]

Yes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Would you be able to provide that to the committee?

[Mala Khanna]

Yes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Perfect.

I'm also curious as to the funding that was received by Mr. Marouf concerning the anti-racism action program. How many applications were received for that funding?

[Mala Khanna]

Initially, there were 1,100 applications.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Was this an open and competitive process?

[Mala Khanna]

It was an open process.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

How long were those applications open for?

[Mala Khanna]

The initial call for proposals was on September 3, 2019, and I believe it closed in January 2020.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

What made Mr. Marouf and his wife the best choice for funding?

[Mala Khanna]

Initially, they were not successful in the first review of applications. Then additional funding was received by the program and all of the initial proposals that were submitted were re-reviewed. It was felt on paper that it met the criteria of the anti-racism action program.