Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 13th, 2023

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Do you think that is a concern?

[Mala Khanna]

Yes.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

You gave them the money originally, the $133,000. We understand $11,000 of that wasn't used. The taxpayers of this country are on the hook for $122,000, which was granted in 2022. There doesn't seem to be any rush by CMAC to stroke the government and the department the $122,000.

Could we suspend CMAC from ever applying again? This is a huge red flag. It has taken the money—so far, as we know—with no intention at all of paying any of it back.

[Mala Khanna]

The government is very much seeking that money back and attempting that through a third party now, but it also wants to very much keep the option open to pursue.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Who's responsible in the department for getting the money back? When will we know that the grant of $122,000 has been repaid, or if it ever does get repaid?

[Mala Khanna]

The Department of Canadian Heritage is communicating with the third party to get updates as to its efforts. On the basis of those results, we'll have to decide what other actions the minister would like to take.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Is there any—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Kevin. I'm sorry, but your time is up.

I'm going to go to the Liberals and Mr. Housefather, for five minutes, please.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thanks so much. Mr. Louis is going to do this round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Louis, please begin, for five minutes.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses, especially for this extra time that you've been here. It's appreciated very much.

I thought I'd bring things back to more broad topics and ask you a bit more about the funding itself, about the lessons learned and about the next steps in a broad way. I want to give you a chance to sum things up in the last round we have here.

We're talking about the community support, multiculturalism and anti-racism initiatives program, and the anti-racism action program. What kinds of programs are usually approved? Can you give an example of programs that usually get approved?

[Mala Khanna]

Your first question was on lessons learned. I think we have learned very important lessons through this terrible situation. We are making it very explicit that racism, hate and discrimination would make you ab initio ineligible for government funding. We require applicants to attest up front, themselves, that they, or anyone associated with the project, will not engage in hate. I think those are important lessons we've learned.

We also recognize that individuals associated with an organization need to be researched on a more systematic basis, not just the organization. Then, as discussed, there's the ability to immediately terminate an agreement.

All of that is learning we are applying.

In terms of the kinds of projects that are typically funded under both the anti-racism action program and the multiculturalism program, $100 million has been committed under Canada's anti-racism strategy with $70 million for community groups. There is a tremendous amount of work that small community groups across the country are engaged in. Canada's anti-racism strategy works to dismantle systemic barriers around employment, justice and social participation. The projects are aimed at that.

Mr. Julian referred to the increasing hate since COVID. We have a number of projects that deal with hate. I want to say that, in spite of this terrible situation, there are a number of very good programs and community groups working hard on the ground to ensure we have the most inclusive Canada, which we all want to see.

The other thing I would like to say is that the program advisers we have at the Department of Justice work very hard to implement these programs every single day. They are delivering the mandate and working—particularly during COVID—to ensure the money is going to community groups that are doing the work we want them to do.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Yes, it is important. The anti-racism work we're doing is absolutely important.

We're seeing that Canadians want to make sure the vetting process is strengthened, along with the ability to terminate contracts. All the things we mentioned today.... It seems we're all on the same page. We just expect it to move forward at a faster pace.

Thank you.

I have one minute left. I'm going to cede to Mr. Housefather.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Anthony, you have one minute.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you.

Since the new guidelines have been in place, have any groups been flagged or denied funding as a result?

[Mala Khanna]

Through the review we did and as a result of the additional screening, there were a handful of organizations about which questions were raised. We had a closer review and, ultimately, there was a recommendation that funding not be removed or no further actions be taken.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Can I ask what those flags were? Were there any defamatory, racist, anti-Semitic or francophobic tweets among them?

[Mala Khanna]

There were concerns about comments an individual may have made, but they are no longer associated with the project. It was deemed not to be in scope. If it had been in the nature of the commentary you're describing, I can assure you we would have taken steps.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I think the time is up.

I will go to the Bloc Québécois and Martin Champoux for two and a half minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is similar to Mr. Housefather's. I'd like to know whether the lists of criteria to be monitored take into account anti-French comments such as those that are increasingly frequent on social media. Is that part of the criteria?

[Mala Khanna]

Yes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

You're assuring me. Okay.

I'm going to go back to the conversation Mr. Waugh was having with you earlier about the collection procedures related to the contract between Mr. Marouf and the Community Media Advocacy Centre.

To your knowledge, had Mr. Marouf started using the money awarded to him under the program? Is he being asked to repay the full amount?

[Mala Khanna]

Yes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Do you have the impression that there will be a small legal battle? If so, is it likely to drag on?

What steps is the Department of Canadian Heritage prepared to take to follow through with the process, should lawyers get involved in the case and a lawsuit be filed?

[Mala Khanna]

The money was demanded to be returned, all of the money that had been provided to CMAC.

We have used a third party collection agency, which is attempting to recover the funds. There is a process through the Canada Revenue Agency where, if there are refunds owing, those can be recouped. We have also engaged on that level.

Our interest was in seeing if those methods would work. We would like those methods to be able to be enforced and, if they are not, then we will have to look at other options.