Canadian Heritage Committee on March 20th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Bérubé. The time is over.

Now we're going to a third round. I'm going to cut the third round down so that there will be four minutes for the people who are given a big round and two minutes for the Bloc and the NDP.

I'll begin with the Conservatives for four minutes, please.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Chair, it is 12:21. Why are you curtailing the members' speaking time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

It's because everyone goes over time, so I'm adding that because we need to stop at about 47 minutes before so that we can do our 15-minute meeting. I am factoring in the fact that, in every question and answer, people have gone over time.

Thank you.

Now four minutes go to the Conservatives. Go ahead, Kevin, for four minutes.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

You know, this deal with Canadian Soccer Business has absolutely handcuffed the Canadian Soccer Association. I think if you look at the deal that you supposedly signed, although we don't see any indication of that, you've extended it maybe even to 2037, and that's why the women were upset when they came here and talked about it. Canadian Soccer Business right now controls Canadian soccer, from the agreement that apparently was made, and people are seeing this.

Mr. Bérubé, you were there. Was there ever a vote on this? Was there ever a vote taken on the agreement with Canadian Soccer Business?

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

Yes, absolutely.

To begin with, I should mention that for 2018, when the agreement was reached, we had $1.4 million from various sponsors. We then had the opportunity to receive a minimum of $3 million per year from CSB. So, at that time, the deal was good for us, if only in terms of numbers.

Now, I've mentioned this before and I'll say it again with great pleasure: Yes, we authorized this agreement on March 27, 2018 through a resolution passed unanimously by the Board members. In addition, we requested that certain changes be made...

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Mr. Bérubé, I'm running short of time here. I would ask you to table the deal in confidence with us, the committee members, if you could....

You already have. Okay.

The other question I have is about the $9 registration fee and $7 million coming in annually to the Canadian Soccer Association. Where does the money go? Do you have a slush fund, like hockey did? If so, how many slush funds?

You know, Mr. Cochrane, we sat here last June, surprised to find these slush funds. Your numbers are 750,000 to 800,000 registrations. Given your $9 registration fee, are there any slush funds associated with Canadian soccer?

[Earl Cochrane]

There is absolutely no slush fund that Canada Soccer has that in any way, shape or form is anything like you just described. Where does the money go? Canada Soccer and all the revenue we generate goes into delivering the game in this country, delivering a forward-looking sport. It goes to our national team programs, our youth national team programs, our coaching development, referee development and safe sport. All the aspects that come with governing a sport, and a global sport, in this country—those are where all the money and resources go.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Okay. I have maybe a minute left.

There's talk that FIFA will give us another game in 2026. How much money will Canada Soccer get from the games in Vancouver and Toronto in 2026, and the talk of an extra game in this country, if that's what's been approved? Do you get any money whatsoever from hosting the two or maybe three games in 2026, or does it all go elsewhere?

[Earl Cochrane]

It is unknown what Canada Soccer will receive from those games. Just to correct the record and the member, we're not talking about one or two games. We're talking about 10, 12 or maybe 15 games over the course of the 104-game World Cup.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Now we will go to Anthony Housefather.

You have four minutes, Anthony.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Coming back to the agreement, gentlemen, I keep hearing about this March 2018 approval date. A March 2018 approval date doesn't hold water when your November board minutes show that the board was waiting on approval, and obviously that approval is no longer valid.

Let me just go to this question. Normally, in an agreement of the type of the CSB deal, you wouldn't have just a fixed amount. You'd certainly have a guaranteed amount that you would have negotiated, a minimum guaranteed amount, but then you would make provision for escalation in the event that, for example, the women's team won the Olympics, or in the event that the men's team qualified for the World Cup. That's not part of this agreement, though, and it has confused a lot of people.

Can you explain why you didn't provide for escalations in the event of better performance by the national teams, and can you do so in a very brief way, please?

[Earl Cochrane]

I'll let Paul-Claude answer the board-directed question.

From my perspective, what I said in the opening and numerous times throughout the questioning of this committee is that our goal is to have those discussions about how we can share in some of the upside and success of our national teams.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

You didn't provide for it in the agreement. Who did the shoddy negotiation of the agreement? Who is the person we should call to ask questions about this agreement from the Canada Soccer perspective?

Is it Mr. Bontis? Is it Mr. Reed? Who is it?

[Earl Cochrane]

I will have to refer that question to a member of the board who was there at the time.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Bérubé, do you know who on the Board was responsible for negotiating the contract?

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

A select committee was established to proceed with negotiating the terms of the contract. Board members were informed of the outcome of these negotiations and gave their approval...

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Bérubé, who was on that team? What are their names?

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

Are you asking me to name the people who sat on the select committee?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Yes.

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

I can give you a few names that come to mind, but we could—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

If you don't have the names right now, please provide them to the Committee.

What is Canada Soccer's position on the appointment of Brazilian Victoria's Secret model Adriana Lima as FIFA's fan ambassador in the lead-up to the women's World Cup?

Would Canada Soccer believe that a men's Calvin Klein underwear model would be a good fan ambassador for a men's World Cup?

She's never played soccer. Why would she be chosen as a fan ambassador for the women's World Cup? Isn't that demeaning to the women players that Canada and other teams put on the field?

Mr. Cochrane, does Canada Soccer have a position on that?

[Earl Cochrane]

It's actually the first time I'm hearing this reference. As it is described, I believe that those days of presenting the women's game in the way that you just described should have been long gone.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

FIFA has announced that. It has gotten some extensive press. I hope Canada Soccer's board will take a position on that.

What is Canada Soccer's position on bringing in Visit Saudi as a key sponsor of the women's World Cup, despite Saudi Arabia's appalling record on women's human rights?

[Earl Cochrane]

Through you, Madam Chair, I believe that Visit Saudi is no longer in consideration for a sponsorship. My understanding was that despite the fact that they were looking to invest significant amounts of money into that tournament, it was recognized, and the voices of the women players made sure that didn't happen.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I have one last question.

When Mr. Bontis was president of Soccer Canada, he also became a vice-president of Concacaf, which led to an estimated payment of over $125,000.

Did he declare a conflict of interest at the board meetings? Did the board ever ask him to recuse himself on matters related to Concacaf?