Evidence of meeting #80 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Canada Soccer
I've talked about it already, and we've already started that process. One of them is to look at the term limits, and the other one is to look at how we can increase sponsorship throughout the organization.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you very much, Mrs. Thomas.
We will now go to the Liberals and Anthony Housefather for five minutes.
You have five minutes, Anthony.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Ms. Crooks.
I want to go back to something. My colleague from the NDP, Ms. Zarrillo, mentioned the McLaren report, which, of course, wasn't in 2008. It was much more recent. It also involved a review in 2019, when 14 U-20 players came forward to share their accounts of abuse and bullying at the hands of Birarda, which was reported on extensively by the press.
What I think was surprising at the time was that Canada Soccer didn't go talk to those people who alleged that they had been victimized. You just came forward with a very bland statement that Canada Soccer didn't have any further details about the ongoing matter. I think that was the concern on that. You're not responsible in any way for what happened in 2008, but there was a feeling that there was a lack of sensitivity by the board in 2019.
Let me ask about CSB. I can understand that lots of motions come before the Canada Soccer board at every meeting, but of course this is the most important deal that Canada Soccer has signed in the last 10 years. You would think that motion would be much more memorable and relevant than other motions.
I know there was a negotiating team. I know there was outside counsel, but you, as a very smart businesswoman, would have asked some questions. Did you ask the negotiators why they agreed to a 20-year agreement in which the CSB had a unilateral option to extend after 10 years and Canada Soccer did not?
President, Canada Soccer
There was a team internally, as you know, in our structure. The secretary general works very closely on these deals. On what we knew at the time and what was presented to us, we made a decision. It was based on the information that was presented to us at the time. A 20-year—
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
I'm very sorry, Ms. Crooks. I have only a limited amount of time. I understand, but I was asking a very specific question.
As a smart businesswoman, yes, there are people whom the board puts out to negotiate, but then it comes back to the board. Everyone on the board has the ability to ask questions and poke holes. Did you ask why they agreed to a unilateral extension after 10 years for CSB and to not giving Canada Soccer the option to exit the contract after 10 years if it was not working out?
President, Canada Soccer
Again, this was an opportunity to grow the deal. After IMG, the CSB opportunity was what was presented to us. Based on the information we had, and looking at the upside of $3 million a year when we had a lot of challenges within the organization, it was a deal that at the time was good. Times have now changed. We have to look at it—
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Can I ask a question? I'm so sorry. I know you're not here—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Excuse me. I will just pause this for a second.
There is a mike open on the floor. Someone is coughing. We can hear the echo. Could you all look at your red light and make sure it's off, please?
I paused, Anthony, so I didn't take any of your time. Go ahead.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Crooks, I understand that, but again, you keep saying that you were presented with this and you were presented with that. You were an independent board member. There are questions around why you unilaterally went to CSB and didn't allow the deal to be bid, including by those who were doing the contracts in the United States and Mexico. Why would you agree to a 20-year term? Yes, it may have looked like there was an upside of $3 million at the outset, but everybody knew there was not a great upside going forward. The deal has figures where the amounts never go over $4.5 million after 20 years.
For example, if you had negotiated that if we make the Olympics the deal goes up to $8 million, or that if we make the World Cup the deal goes up to $10 million, or that if we host a World Cup it goes up to $15 million, those would be upsides. None of those are there. I think as a smart businesswoman you would have seen that.
My question is this: Did you ask those questions at the time, or did you just rely on this negotiating team and the outside counsel to come forward with a deal that in the end pretty much the universality of people who have looked at it thinks doesn't make any sense?
President, Canada Soccer
This deal will be modernized. These same challenges that we're talking about today...we also feel a lot of that. We want to make sure that whatever comes out of this, it's in the best interests of Canada Soccer moving forward. There have been some precedents with other associations that also have had long-term deals, but where we are now is looking at how we can make it better. There is an opening, and we are taking that and working that together.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
I'm going to wind up with a last question, Madam Chair. I know I have only 24 seconds.
Again, Ms. Crooks, you talked about the leverage, but where is the leverage? You signed a deal for 20 years, for which you have no exit terms. They defaulted during the pandemic in paying, but Canada Soccer didn't take any action to declare them in default. Why did you sign a deal that created no women's professional league, yet you let the women's team assets be part of this deal to create the CPL? None of this makes any sense.
President, Canada Soccer
We are looking at every single angle to be able to fix some of these, to correct some of the areas of this partnership.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you.
We have five minutes left to go on this, everyone. We could go with a round of three, three, 1.5 and 1.5, but that's really pushing it. Do you feel you've asked all the burning questions? We committed to 5:45 p.m.
Can I get a sense of whether people would like to end the questions now?
Liberal
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
I think there are heads nodding that perhaps it's time to adjourn, so I will move said motion to adjourn.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you very much.
I want to thank Ms. Crooks for being here, and I want to thank everyone on the committee for getting along so nicely and keeping to time.
Thank you very much, Ms. Crooks. We appreciate your presence.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
We want to thank you for being here today.
I declare the meeting adjourned.