Canadian Heritage Committee on June 8th, 2023

[Christopher Lindsay]

My understanding is that Boxing Canada was reminded of its obligations under the funding framework and that changes were required in the types of policies and procedures we have in place. I think one reason we see so many policy changes in the 2022 calendar year is a response to making sure we actually had all of the necessary measures in place in order to adequately protect our participants.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Was there any accountability taken with regard to Sport Canada and the funding that it is providing to Boxing Canada?

[Christopher Lindsay]

To the best of my knowledge, our funding has not been interrupted.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Okay.

Have there been metrics set out or expectations set out, aside from signing off on OSIC, in order to receive funding?

[Christopher Lindsay]

To the best of my knowledge, no. Signing on to OSIC, as with all of our national sport organizations, was the primary thing that was asked.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Those hundreds of letters were written to Sport Canada, and they came to light in May 2022. Your organization didn't sign OSIC until May 2023, which means that an entire 12 months passed with zero accountability from Sport Canada toward your organization. Meanwhile, hundreds of letters were submitted that outlined atrocious things that took place under the care of your organization.

I take issue with Boxing Canada, and I take issue with Sport Canada for its lack of accountability. That's shameful. It's really sad that those athletes had to go through that.

I'm curious why Daniel was allowed to simply resign without any disciplinary measures?

[Christopher Lindsay]

Unfortunately, I don't have any information to add that could bring any clarity to your question.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Under your leadership, would that happen again?

[Christopher Lindsay]

No.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Why not? What are you going to do to protect against it?

[Christopher Lindsay]

I am a very strong believer that, in order to have performance at the highest end of our national team program, we must have a strong foundation of trust, accountability and free communication among our athletes, our coaches and our leadership.

Without that, I don't feel that athletes are put in a position to perform. We may end up having top-level athletes being able to overcome obstacles, but our goal at Boxing Canada isn't to support only top-level athletes. Our goal is to improve the ability of our national team to compete at whatever level they are able to obtain until such time as they are unable to compete with the national team anymore, at the end of their career or should they choose to move on.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Lindsay, I hope you are never put in a situation where you have to consider letting someone within your organization go, but should you be put in that situation, I hope you do the right thing.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Thomas.

Next I go to Tim Louis for the Liberals.

You have six minutes. Go ahead, please, Tim.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll ask all the questions through the chair.

I want to start by thanking everyone for being here, including those who are telling their personal stories. I would just say—I'm sure I speak on behalf of the whole committee—that it takes courage to be here and it is important that your voices are being heard. We do appreciate your time.

I will start by addressing Ms. Taylor.

Ms. Taylor, you embody and represent so many parents of children playing hockey or other sports, and as parents we all want to nurture and protect our children. We want to give them those opportunities to grow and to succeed. Part of those opportunities—and you mentioned this—includes competition.

At the same time—and we've heard this from so many people—you spoke about this culture of creating athletes and pushing them to be elite, and it starts at such a young age.

In your opinion, what is a model, a scenario in which that can be done in a balanced way? How can we strike a balance between being competitive and winning at all costs and learning the right life skills?

[Kim Taylor]

Thank you for the question.

I don't know if I have a great answer for that, but competition is always going to be there, and life isn't fair. I think you do need to learn how to win and how to lose to be successful.

With that being said, it's becoming a year-round sport for kids. They're not able to do multi-sports or do other things. The Canadian Hockey League is big business. Big money and scholarships are involved. The money is so enticing that kids are in sport year-round, and I think that's part of the problem too.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I do appreciate that.

You are at this committee. I imagine there are other parents watching who have younger children. What kind of message do you have? From your unfortunate experiences, is there something you can share with both the committee and other parents—let's say, of younger children?

[Kim Taylor]

Looking back, being an American and sending my high school-aged son to a different country was a bit naive of me. We're a first-generation hockey family. We live in California and, yes, there is hockey in California. I didn't even know what the CHL was at that point. I didn't know what the USHL was.

My son was identified at a young age, at 14, through the U.S.A. Hockey national team development program. That's when it all started. These opportunities all hit that bantam year. The phone started ringing, and we had all these choices to make. We made the best decision with the information we had at the time. Looking back, we believed what we were told.

When you have a big name fly out to a practice to watch your son skate, and they tell you, “It's about timing and being at the right place at the right time, and we're offering him this great opportunity”, you buy into everything they're telling you.

I am here to say, always remember that it's big business. They're there to make money, and they're not always there for the best interests of the player.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Walter, we have heard much testimony, but I do not believe we have yet heard the term “exploited financially”, so I want to shed some more light on that. You mentioned scholarships and how you weren't aware of the terms. You talked about the players' rights and safety and making sure those are protected.

Can you expand a bit on ways in which these young athletes can be exploited financially as well?

[Lukas Walter]

Yes, for sure.

I was down in the States, and my paycheque was about $75 a week. I had a car, and everyone knows that gas is expensive. At the end of the day I had to take a loan out from my parents, and then that summer, when I was supposed to be training and all that, I had to pay off the loan and then pay for my training. Hockey is an expensive sport. It's really expensive.

I will say about the league that I don't think anything has really changed in it. You were saying that you were first generation. I talked to my dad and my uncle—I'm from a long line of WHL players—and nothing has really changed, including the pay, since the 1980s. Look at inflation and how that goes. I don't know what else to say about that.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

What would you have liked to see to be better equipped to negotiate the contracts? What systems would have helped you to make sure you were protected?

[Lukas Walter]

Making sure I have enough money to fill up my car and buy a couple of snacks here and there would help, but at the end of the day, the financial situation hasn't changed since the 1980s, let alone anything else in the league, including the hazing. All of that still goes on.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I'll simply say thank you. My time is short, but I want to thank you and all the witnesses for being here today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Tim.

I'm going to go to the next speaker, Sébastien Lemire of the Bloc Québécois.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for their testimony.

Mrs. Lemay, how do you feel about what you've heard today?

How could we prevent the types of abuse suffered by Mr. Gobeil, Mr. Walter or Ms. Taylor?

[Mélanie Lemay]

A member of my family played for the Montreal Canadiens in the 1940s and 1950s. It's fascinating to see that things haven't changed much. It's the loved ones who fund sport, and the family has to make a lot of sacrifices. In my opinion, it's a major financial challenge.

You can see that college and professional sports teams are businesses. In my opinion, as long as we don't take a closer look at the precarious environment young athletes live in or the fact that we're creating a competition for opportunities, I believe we'll continue to fail miserably at protecting our young people.