Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 26th, 2023

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Okay. Let's move on.

Ms. Hepfner, do you have anything else to add here, then?

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I would like to support Mr. Julian's comments. I think it's fair what he has said, given the conduct of other members of this committee.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you.

We're going to go back now.

You wanted to speak, Mrs. Thomas. I did read the intro of this. You had your hand up. The clerk noticed that you were the first one to have your hand up.

You have the floor.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, I'll be moving a motion for consideration at this committee. I would like it to be considered immediately, given that we are currently in committee business.

The motion reads as follows:

This committee condemns the CBC for publishing a false headline based on disinformation from Hamas, a criminal terrorist organization, that incorrectly stated Israel was responsible for the explosion at al-Alhi hospital in Gaza that resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians, and given that,

The Prime Minister, the Minister of National Defence, the Canadian Forces Intelligence Command, the United States, the United Kingdom and France have all concluded this claim is false,

The committee calls on the CBC to apologize to the Jewish community and all Canadians for spreading this dangerous disinformation and to publicly correct the record and to report this finding to the House of Commons.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Mrs. Thomas.

Has anyone—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Chair, I do have further comments to make. However, for the benefit of the committee, I am happy to allow the motion to be distributed first. Then we can continue with discussion.

I would like it noted, however, that I am not ceding the floor. I do have further comments to make.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

That's fine, but we do need copies for everybody.

It's the will of the committee to suspend for a couple of moments to get copies distributed to everyone here. We'll take a three-minute or four-minute suspension.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

We're back, and we are ready to resume.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Go ahead on a point of order, Mr. Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I want to understand what Ms. Thomas just did. She had the floor.

I have a point of clarification. Were we debating the motion that was on the table at the last meeting, or did we start a whole new conversation today? If we have started a whole new conversation today, I would like you to confirm the order of speakers—there must be a list of speakers.

I would like to know in what capacity Ms. Thomas had the floor at that time. Was it an extension, a continuation of our last meeting, or was it a new round? Are we still discussing the same amendment as at the end of Tuesday's meeting?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Mr. Champoux, she asked prior to speaking to this....

Last time it wasn't adjourned; it was suspended. I was here for that meeting on Tuesday. It was the chair, actually, who thought we were going to resume on my subamendment. That was her interpretation. My interpretation is a little bit different, because I thought we adjourned and started over. Actually, that's why I thought committee business today was going to be on the CRTC, but it wasn't because, as you saw in the notice, the committee business had nothing for today.

That's what I thought.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I will continue on my point of order, and I will try to ask my question clearly.

If I understand correctly, the CRTC person who was supposed to appear here will not appear, and the meeting on Tuesday was not suspended, it was adjourned. If we are at this point, it is because there was a kind of error in the procedure.

Is that correct?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

That's right.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Okay, thank you. That's very nice.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Mr. Julian, go ahead.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Chair, I have enormous respect for you, and you do remarkable work as a parliamentarian, but I can't agree with your interpretation of things. We were, as we have been over the last three meetings, engaged in the motion that was presented by Mrs. Thomas, and your subamendment was before this table. We don't start afresh. That would be a misinterpretation of the rules. With respect, I'll have to challenge your interpretation. I think where we are is, as you mentioned, your subamendment, which is a subamendment to my amendment.

I'm hoping we can get on with the safe sport study. I'm certainly willing to withdraw my amendment, and I hope Mrs. Thomas is willing to withdraw hers so we can get on to safe sports. I think there are some other ideas in terms of a study we could do, but I don't agree with this interpretation that somehow we're starting afresh but that Mrs. Thomas still has a continuation from the previous meeting.

With deep respect—because you do, I think, a remarkable job—I will have to challenge your ruling.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Go ahead, Mr. Melillo.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I believe Mr. Julian had the floor on a point of order, and I do not believe he can move to challenge the chair on a point of order. That is my recollection of what just happened.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

To be honest with you, Mr. Julian didn't have a point of order. I never heard him say, “point of order”. After Mr. Champoux, he just had a few comments and took the floor by himself.

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

When we started, after I read the opening remarks, Mrs. Thomas had her hand up, and then we proceeded. I will admit that I did not assume, once we adjourned, that we were going to pick up on the subamendment from Tuesday.

Mrs. Thomas has the floor. She raised her hand first. I have Mrs. Thomas—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I believe Mr. Julian was challenging, and that should take us to a vote, if I'm not mistaken.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

I'm going to let the clerk explain the procedure going forward here.

[Jacques Maziade, Committee Clerk]

The challenge is on the decision of the chair.

Shall the decision of the chair be sustained?

If you say yes, it means we'll continue with Mrs. Thomas and her motion. If the committee says no, the decision is overturned and we're going back to square one.

Does everybody understand?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Do you have any questions on this, Mr. Champoux?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

What exactly are we coming back to, the subamendment or the agenda?