Evidence of meeting #94 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was point.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
It's not in order. That is what I am challenging. It's up to the committee to decide whether or not the sudden change procedurally is in order.
I would simply ask you—
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
—to do as we have done so many times before and simply ask whether the decision of the chair should be sustained.
It is a fundamental right of committee members to challenge you in a respectful way with no debate. The committee will decide whether or not they sustain your ruling. I disagree with it, but there's no debate on this. You simply have to put it to the floor: Shall the decision of the chair be sustained?
Please do so.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Okay.
We're going around in circles. We all love circles on a Thursday, but I will let it go, the decision.
Go ahead with the vote.
(Ruling of the chair overturned: nays 6; yeas 4)
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
I move that we return to talking about the subamendment. That's where we left off in the previous meeting.
I'm very disappointed, because I think it's clear that the CBC, even after a week and a half, hasn't retracted their story. We saw the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs.... All of this disinformation out there suggests Israel bombed the hospital, when in fact the information came from Hamas. I can't believe the committee doesn't want to talk about that and get the CBC to retract their story,
That said, we were talking previously about a similar issue with the CBC. In light of The Canadian Press having to retract three false statements about our Conservative leader this morning, I think this is a timely topic.
We were talking about the subamendment made to Mr. Julian's amendment.
What I will say is this: I think it's important to make sure we have Catherine Tait come to committee for two hours specifically to talk about the issue that was in the same motion today—the false story and the directive about how journalists should not refer to Hamas as terrorists, even though it's legal. We should somehow make sure we distinguish between that and what we're going to talk about with Ms. Tait when she's already scheduled to come, which is her mandate. I have a number of questions to ask about her mandate, because there have been numerous articles that have done a statistical analysis and come to the conclusion that the CBC is left-leaning. In many cases, they are not reporting to Canadians accurately. That is not freedom of the press. It is a very dangerous trend.
In my discussion, I would support very much Mr. Waugh's previous subamendment saying Catherine Tait...“for two hours”.
Thank you.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Thank you, Ms. Gladu.
Just to inform everyone around the table, the chair, who isn't here today, had a speaking list, but I have a new speaking list in front of me, because we adjourned the last meeting.
We adjourned the meeting, so we start a new speaking list, if you don't mind, Mr. Noormohamed.... That's what I've done. I have Mrs. Thomas, Mr. Melillo, Mr. Julian, Mr. Noormohamed, Mr. Coteau and Ms. Hepfner. If you don't mind, Mr. Coteau had his hand up before you.
Mrs. Thomas, the floor is yours.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Perhaps it would be best to start here.
I would like to point out a procedural thing. While I respect my colleague Ms. Gladu and her bringing forward my motion for discussion, I believe, if you look at the green book, that's not permitted. Because the motion is mine, I am the only one who can move it, unless, of course, someone has officially subbed in for me, at which point that individual can move it.
In order to bring us back under the procedure described in the green book, I will move my motion for discussion at this point in time.
9:30 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
We made a decision at this committee, and we are back on your subamendment. That is something the committee decided, based on what has been committee practice since as long as I have been on the Canadian heritage committee.
It is out of order and inappropriate for any member of this committee to try to move three different motions through the course of this meeting. This is simply not appropriate procedurally.
Given that we have made the decision—it is back on your subamendment, as Ms. Gladu said, very appropriately—I would ask you to ensure that all members are speaking to your subamendment. That is what is before us on the table. That's what Conservatives moved and that's what we've been debating for the last three meetings.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Thank you, Mr. Julian. I agree.
We're debating, Mrs. Thomas, if you don't mind me saying, the subamendment put forth—
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
The motion is on the floor. You can't debate the subamendment without me moving the motion.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
No. I was defeated on a challenge, six to four, that we would go back to committee business and resume debate on the subamendment from Tuesday.
I have a speaking list here. You just happen to be first up now. Ms. Gladu did sneak in. Maybe she shouldn't have, but I let her. Then we're with you, then Mr. Melillo, and then Mr. Julian, if you don't mind.
We're talking about the subamendment from Tuesday, if you don't mind, about my subamendment to Mr. Julian's.
Is everything clear as mud here?
Mr. Julian and then Mrs. Thomas.
9:30 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
I think it might be useful, Mr. Chair, for the clerk to read your subamendment on the record. Some folks around the table might need a refresher on what is actually before us.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
I have it right here in front of me. I'll read it out for those who weren't around.
Mr. Melillo, I know you weren't here.
It reads as follows:
Given that,
Hamas has been a declared terrorist organization by the Government of Canada since 2002, and
The horrific Hamas terrorist attack against Israel left thousands of innocent people dead and injured, and
—the third point now changes—
That both the European Union and U.S. lawmakers have raised concerns about false and misleading content about the Israel-Hamas conflict being spread, and
The CBC receives $1.4 billion in public funding and that Meta and Google and other media platforms receive over $1 billion in indirect subsidies annually through taxpayer dollars, and that this committee has a mandate to review Government expenditures,
The Committee:
g) That the committee invite Rachel Curran, head of public policy, Meta Canada to come before the committee and summon the President of the CBC, Catherine Tait to appear for 2 hours by herself within seven days of the motion being adopted,
h) invite the CBC Director of Journalistic Standards, George Achi and the CBC ombudsman Jack Nagler, to appear separately for a minimum of an hour and a half each, to address the CBC’s position on Journalistic Standards and Practices.
This is the subamendment that we are currently going to debate.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
With respect to process, based on the overturning of the ruling of the chair, I would go back to page 1062 of the green book just so that we are all clear in terms of the speaking list specifically.
The book notes, “If either the debate or the meeting is adjourned without the committee taking a decision,” which is what happened, “the committee may resume the debate at any time afterwards at another meeting.”
My question for the clerk—this is not to be obstreperous or obstructionist; I'm just trying to understand—is this: If that is where we were, should we not be going back to the original speaking list?
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
If you wish, I can start with Mrs. Thomas, who's up right now.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
No, no. I mean the original speaking list for the last meeting. That's what I am asking about.