Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 26th, 2023

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I disagree with the profound disinformation, and that is not relevant to the subamendment. The subamendment is the two hours versus the one hour, and I think that's a worthy debate.

I appreciated your offering it as a subamendment, Mr. Chair, but the comments are not relevant to the subamendment.

Ms. Tait is coming. She's coming before the committee. I would ask you to enforce that rule of relevance, so that the comments are on whether a two-hour as opposed to a one-hour time frame is appropriate.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Okay.

Go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

To be clear, the subamendment is very specific about the reason Ms. Tait would be coming to this committee. It is not the addition of an hour to the already standing commitment. Rather, it is for an entirely new purpose she is being asked to come.

It also reads that there are two other individuals on her leadership team who would be required to come: Mr. Nagler and Mr. Achi.

Again, for the members opposite, along with the NDP member, to try to shut this down—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I have a point of order.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Go ahead, Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I, again, question relevance. The reality is that my amendment very clearly refers to the other two individuals. We know Ms. Tait is coming next week. The accusations and comments are not relevant to the subamendment.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Mrs. Thomas, go ahead.

I think the confusion, if you don't mind me saying, is that we had booked in Catherine Tait before all the issues we have seen in the last two weeks out of the CBC newsreel. The subamendment we're dealing with concerns the reporting out of Gaza since the conflict started between Hamas and Israel.

Yes, we're dealing with a subamendment, but this is where we've crossed the line. We had Tait coming regardless, and now we've asked her to come for two hours. Things have developed, as you know, Mr. Julian. Things have developed over the last two weeks that were, “Really? Is this what's happening?”

That's why your amendment and my subamendment include the CBC. It was because of the issues that happened with the reporting of the public broadcaster.

Mrs. Thomas, if you don't mind, continue on the subamendment.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll read the exact wording of the the subamendment:

That the committee invite Rachel Curran, head of public policy, Meta Canada to come before the committee and summon the President of the CBC, Catherine Tait to appear for 2 hours by herself within seven days of the motion being adopted,

invite the CBC Director of Journalistic Standards, George Achi and the CBC ombudsman Jack Nagler, to appear separately for a minimum of an hour and a half each, to address the CBC's position on Journalistic Standards and Practices.

One of those journalistic standards and practices is that they refused to call Hamas a terrorist organization. This is despite the fact that Hamas has been listed by Canada as a terrorist organization since 2002. That's more than 20 years.

For the CBC to make this decision is absolutely irresponsible. It is to peddle disinformation. It is to be on the side of Hamas, which is to be on the side of terrorists, which is to be against the Jewish population, which is wrong.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Go ahead, Mr. Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Chair, Ms. Thomas' accusations and comments about the public broadcaster are extremely serious. I would encourage her, through you, Mr. Chair, to be careful in what she says because it can cause a lot of damage. This is a major blow to the credibility of the public broadcaster.

I think we've gone around the table a little bit. I invite you to question the repetition in Ms. Thomas' comments. Without that repetition, we would be resuming debate and listening to other speakers.

I would still urge my colleagues to be extremely careful in their choice of words, as words have consequences. We are talking about a public news outlet. This is a very serious attack on the credibility of a broadcaster based on opinions, not facts.

Thank you.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I also have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Go ahead, Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I think you should give the floor to someone else. Ms. Thomas is not following the rules of the committee. The allegations she is making against journalists put their lives at risk and are extremely serious and inflammatory.

This week, she said that she wanted to make this committee a living hell. I find those comments absolutely disgraceful, and she should apologize to all journalists.

We may disagree on some points, but the allegations she has just made are appalling. They threaten journalists' lives.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you to both of you.

Thank you, Mr. Champoux, a former journalist, for your comments.

Mrs. Thomas, continue on, if you don't mind.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I wish the members of this committee cared enough about the lives of innocent Jewish individuals—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Mr. Noormohamed.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

We have now sat through Mrs. Thomas saying that we are on the side of terrorists—all of us. We have sat through Mrs. Thomas saying that we don't care about the Jewish community.

I am very proud to represent the Jewish community in Vancouver and the institutions that are Jewish in my riding. I take great, great responsibility, and it means the world to me that they have chosen to have me as their member of Parliament.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

What she is doing, if I may finish, Mr. Chair, is not only casting aspersions on the intentions of members of this committee. What she's also doing—perhaps wittingly, perhaps unwittingly, I don't know what she's thinking—is to foment a remarkable amount of discord in communities where we already have a lot of anxiety.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

A point of order.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

It is not helpful, Mr. Chair, and it's extremely dangerous.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

On a point of order, Ms. Gladu.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Chair, while respecting the point that we all need to get to a better place, I think that was debate.