Declaration of Emergency Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2022

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Yes. I'm wondering if there's an opportunity within this motion to, first of all, demand that all the documents be presented to this committee. I think that would be helpful and appropriate, and then, if there is a will, I would like to bring the Privy Council back to this committee to answer for why they didn't provide it in the first place. To me, this motion actually falls in the same kind of procedural grey area as the other motion relating to obstruction or contempt. If we believe that this is a situation that warrants that, then I would suggest that we pursue it in that way.

I am frustrated that this stuff came, because we did learn more over the last two months than we did in the first six months of this committee, and I think it was completely unnecessary in terms of the delay in getting to this information.

Mr. Chair, in all the court proceedings, quite frankly, I'd like to see that documents that have been made public record within those proceedings relevant to this committee be submitted to this committee.

If I could move an amendment, I would move that we request from the government all documents pertaining to this committee that are being publicly released in the courts. I think that would at least help us catch up to where that process is.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Okay.

Senator Boniface would like to comment, but I must first check whether you are proposing an amendment, Mr. Green.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

That was the amendment, to add to, not to replace.

I would allow the movers to argue as to why they would believe it would be important to bring the PCO back before us. In my opinion, procedurally it seems to be alluding to the same type of obstruction that we dealt with in the previous motion. I would, however, like to have a process in place such that when documents are submitted by the government in court proceedings and become public—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

You explained it earlier, Mr. Green.

I would just like to clarify the amendment you are proposing. Where is its wording?

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Can I ask a clarification question?

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Yes, Ms. Bendayan.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Green, are you suggesting that all publicly available documents be available to this committee from the court proceedings?

[The Joint Chair (Mr. Matthew Green), Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

That's correct.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Could that be proposed in a separate motion?

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

I'm happy to do that at a later time.

I'll take it back, Mr. Chair, and I'll draft it. I'll make sure it's in both official languages as well.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

You are making my life easier, Mr. Green. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Bendayan.

What is more, it appears that we have unanimous consent to withdraw Mr. Green's amendment proposal.

Ms. Boniface, go ahead.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Mr. Chair, maybe it would be helpful if Mr. Motz spoke first, because I find this confusing, and it was more convoluted once Mr. Green spoke, because I think we may have covered it in another motion. I'm finding it difficult to understand what we're asking for with this one, particularly when I see at the end, “among other things”. That could be a range.

Perhaps it would be helpful if Mr. Motz spoke.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Ms. Boniface.

Mr. Motz, go ahead.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I'll defer some of this to my colleague, Mr. Brock, but I want to explain.

I agree with Mr. Green that having the Privy Council Office, the Clerk there, provide all documents to this committee is critical, and that's obviously the intent of this.

Also, there needs to be some explanation on the Clerk's part to help us understand why we don't get documents when we ask for documents. It makes no sense to me that the courts get them. I'm sure that will come up in Mr. Green's motion, but we can also add it here. It's the idea that we asked for these documents as part of the May 31 order, and yet we were not provided documents. However, the Privy Council Office sent certain documents to the commission, and we don't have those. They sent documents to the Federal Court on other matters before those courts with regard to the Emergencies Act, and yet we do not have those and we are blocked from having them. I don't understand why. I think the Clerk of the Privy Council needs to come to explain why.

Mr. Green also commented earlier that there needs to be some accounting somewhere. Maybe if someone of the stature of the Clerk of the Privy Council will recognize that this committee has a privilege to get access to the information that is available to other situations or other venues, then we would be able to have them based on the order we got.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. Motz.

Mr. Brock, we are listening to you.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm going to start off by seeking some direction from you, Mr. Chair, and from the clerk, if necessary.

Do I have the ability to seek a friendly amendment to this motion, notwithstanding that my name is attached to the motion itself? Perhaps my senator friend could help me. That's fine.

To Mr. Green's point and his kind suggestion about drafting a separate motion, which, in my view, deals with the substantive matter that we're trying to seek here, which is access to the documentation, of course, it's very clear given the media reports that the Clerk of the Privy Council has clearly relevant information for the purposes of this committee. Might I suggest as a friendly amendment that could be put forth by my friend Senator Carignan—oh, thank you. It's been drafted for me, “That the committee invite”—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I will give the floor to Senator Carignan if he is the one proposing it.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Perhaps I could read it, or else I could pass it on just as easily.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I'm sorry, Mr. Brock.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

No, technically, he cannot do it.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

The friendly amendment is to read, “That the committee invite the Clerk of the Privy Council to appear before the committee to discuss the production of documents, including claims of cabinet confidence for the committee and other proceedings related to the public order emergency.”

[Claude Carignan]

It's a very good idea. I move that.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Does this constitute an amendment? If we are talking about an amendment to motion 8 from Mr. Motz and Mr. Brock, it must be specified where to change what word.

You read to us a new motion, Mr. Brock, and I like it, but with all due respect, I think it is another motion. It is no longer part of an amendment. Perhaps your motion could be proposed separately, I don't know. If we want to make an amendment to motion 8, I will need to know what word is being changed.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chair, if I may, since we have already discussed eight motions from the Conservatives and we also have amendments—