Declaration of Emergency Committee on Oct. 27th, 2022

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Answer briefly, Mr. Ayotte.

[Kim Ayotte]

Yes, with our emergency plan, all departments within the city would respond to support the police. It's just like a fire. If we had a major fire, the police wouldn't be telling the fire chief how to put that fire out. The people with the subject matter expertise and the responsibilities are those who are responsible for developing those specific operational plans.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. Ayotte. Excuse me for interrupting you, but I have to give the floor to Senator Harder for three minutes.

[Peter Harder]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will go back to the mayor.

Mayor, we talked earlier about the collapse of the police's capacity to respond to the occupation, the lack of coordination amongst the various police forces involved and, in a sense, the lack of political coherence across the levels of government.

You welcomed the imposition of the declaration of emergency by the Government of Canada, and it was shortly after that emergency declaration that, in fact, you saw in Ottawa the model of policing for dealing with and dismantling the occupation. Was that just a coincidence?

[Jim Watson]

No, I think the Emergencies Act acted as a catalyst for us to have the ability to move in. On the first day of the counter-activity to clean up Wellington Street, I saw outside City Hall 14 or 15 tow trucks all lined up on Laurier Avenue ready to go.

I thought, when the plan was implemented, that the police did an excellent job. People were literally glued to their television as they saw the police moving and dismantling Coventry, Wellington, Rideau, Sussex and Byward Market....

I commend all of the officers for the work they did, but they could not have done that...because, if we got the people out, we'd still have the trucks there. We had to get rid of the trucks because they were acting almost as a shield or a weapon to those people who wanted to peacefully walk in front of the Parliament Building.

[Peter Harder]

Thanks very much.

Finally, Mayor, you commented earlier on the disappointment you felt as a resident of Ottawa—and certainly many of my fellow residents felt as well—about the absence of the premier's involvement personally here.

Can you confirm with us that he did visit Ottawa during the floods and the hurricanes you referenced in your early remarks?

[Jim Watson]

He was here after the tornado that affected Dunrobin, primarily in the west end of the city, but he was not here during the occupation.

He was here for a brief moment at the end of the big storm, which was in the middle of an election. He stopped at a fire station, but I don't think he saw any of the damage.

[Peter Harder]

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Senator Harder.

The first two rounds of questions are now over. We are now entering the third round of questions with speaking time of five minutes each, as was the case for the first round.

Go ahead, Mr. Motz.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I want to go back to you, Mr. Watson.

You left the impression here today that it wasn't until the Emergencies Act was invoked that you were able to clear out the protest, which we all know isn't true. You had tow trucks.

Superintendent Bernier testified at the commission two days ago that there were 34 tow trucks lined up long before the Emergencies Act was invoked.

Would it then be reasonable to suggest that had actual enforcement action taken place, dealing with the existing laws that we have—municipal bylaws, provincial statutes, federal laws—and negotiations—humble, respectful negotiations—that it was possible, with the police operational plans that were in place, it could have worked and that the Emergencies Act would never have, and may never have, been necessary.

[Jim Watson]

As you know, Mr. Motz, later in the day, it was confirmed that those 35 tow trucks never made it to Ottawa. The deal fell apart. The OPP, I believe, confirmed that yesterday—later in the day. That was the big news that I read about today.

In fact, we didn't have tow trucks prior to the Emergencies Act. There was a—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Let's go back for a minute.

Whether we had tow trucks or didn't have tow trucks, there was a lot of talk about whether or not enforcement action took place, didn't take place, could have taken place. Enforcement negotiations and police plans that were in place before the Emergencies Act came into being could have resolved this.

I go back to a statement you made earlier that a mediator was offered—the suggestion was made. I'm shocked that a federal minister of the crown didn't think it was a good idea, didn't want them to get involved. I am shocked that was the position of this government.

To me, they completely disregarded the concerns of Canadians with that particular attitude. We wonder why there's division in this country. It appears to me that the federal government was more interested in optics, looking tough, than actually resolving the situation. That concerns me. It concerns all Canadians.

Like all members of the House, we walked around downtown. We know what happened here. I am asked all the time in my constituency whether or not it actually happened. I say, not the way it was reported. Did it impact people? Absolutely, it did. The issue is that people wanted to be heard.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

You have the floor, Mr. Brock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Could we suspend his time?

I'm asking for the chair to point out to members of the Liberal team that it's wholly inappropriate to be talking above a member who is asking questions of a particular witness.

I'm asking for respect. We provide respect when they ask questions. This isn't question period; this isn't an opportunity to heckle. I'm asking for a bit of decorum.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. Brock.

Would anyone like to add anything?

As no one responded, I'll go back to Mr. Motz.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.

There are numerous sides to this situation. It was something that could have been resolved a lot sooner, had the appropriate action been taken. We all know that and we all believe that. Many people around this table believe law enforcement could have done something different earlier on. The government certainly could have been respectful to the Canadians who came here to be heard, and it wasn't.

As an elected member of the government who represents a part of this country that believes in democracy, it's actually quite shameful. The smear that's gone on to characterize individuals, as our government and our Prime Minister did, I think is inappropriate and created the hassle that happened here. It put the City of Ottawa in a very difficult situation, and, basically, you guys were left hung out to dry, to some degree, in trying to resolve this without proper negotiations.

If you actually had a tripartite meetings, why were negotiators not involved? Why weren't efforts made to listen to protesters? They had legitimate concerns.

[Jim Watson]

Do I have time to answer?

You raised a dozen different issues there—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Yes, I did.

[Jim Watson]

—so I'm not going to be able to answer.

I lived through the protest, the vulgarity of it. I gave examples of boorish behaviour. After things had gotten cleaned up, I was walking around the area and was called an “effing fag” because I'm gay by some of these people who came in to disrupt our community. This was not some simple protest. This was a serious takeover of our downtown and—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I want to stop you right there. You know, Mr. Mayor—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Your speaking time is over, Mr. Motz.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

—not everybody arrived here as part of the protest.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Mr. Motz, your time is up.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

You know many other people came here because they wanted to attach themselves.

Thank you.