Declaration of Emergency Committee on Oct. 27th, 2022

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I call this meeting to order.

Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the 16th meeting of the Special Joint Committee on the Declaration of Emergency created pursuant to the order of the House of March 2, 2022 and the Senate of March 3, 2022.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House and Senate orders. Should any technical issues arise, please let me know so that we can suspend for a few minutes, if necessary, to ensure that all members are able to participate fully.

Witnesses should also be aware that translation is available through the globe icon at the bottom of their screen.

As I understand it, no witnesses are participating in the meeting virtually. Since everyone is present, what I just said was unnecessary. I also want to say that no preliminary sound check was done by the joint clerks as all the witnesses are in the room. So we won't have any sound issues.

Before I turn the floor over to the witnesses, I believe that Mr. Motz wants to introduce a motion that was submitted to us a few minutes before the meeting started.

Go ahead, Mr. Motz.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In response to information we got from the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel for the House of Commons and the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel for the Senate and the committees and legislative services directorate on the rights of committees to procure responses to oral questioning, I move the following motion:That the Committee, having considered the October 24, 2022, briefing note prepared by appropriate experts of the Senate and House of Commons concerning the rights of committees to procure evidence from witnesses, directs the Joint Chairs to read the following statement to witnesses at the beginning of their appearances before this Committee:

The notice that we are proposing be read to all witnesses from here on forward is as follows:

Given their constitutional nature, a committee’s powers supersede statutory law and other privileges, including Cabinet confidences and solicitor-client privilege. When questioning witnesses, beyond the general requirement of relevance to the subject being studied by a committee, there is no specific evidence rule limiting the nature of questions that may be asked to a witness during committee work. Witnesses must answer the questions put to them truthfully. When a witness raises concerns about answering a question or refuses to answer, it is in that committee’s sole discretion to determine whether any reasons for withholding information should be accepted”.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Does anyone wish to speak to Mr. Motz's motion?

The floor is yours, Ms. Bendayan.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I hear the bells ringing.

Second, it seems to me that, last week, everyone agreed on my proposal that we start getting down to work. Four witnesses are taking part in the committee's meeting today.

Consequently, I don't understand why we're still debating a motion that, I would point out, was put before us barely half an hour ago. So I move that debate on this motion be adjourned, which will let us get down to business.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Ms. Bendayan is introducing an adjournment motion.

We can discuss it.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

We can't debate an adjournment motion.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

In that case, we will vote on Ms. Bendayan's request that debate on Mr. Motz's motion be adjourned.

[The Joint Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Miriam Burke]

The vote is on the motion of Madame Bendayan.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you.

Debate on Mr. Motz's motion is therefore adjourned.

As you noticed, the bells have started ringing. We have 26 minutes before the vote. I therefore propose that we hear one or two witnesses, who will each have five minutes to read their opening statements. Then we could adjourn to go and vote.

Mr. Motz, I heard you say "yes". Do you agree with my proposal or would you suggest something else?

Mr. Brock, you had raised your hand. Did you want to speak to this?

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

No. Thank you, Chair. It's been clarified.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chair, since the witnesses, as you just said, will each have five minutes for their presentations, and we have more than 20 minutes before the vote, couldn't we hear more—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

That's what I was proposing, Ms. Bendayan. We will begin hearing the witnesses' remarks, and I will suspend the meeting 15 minutes before the vote starts.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

It doesn't take 15 minutes to vote electronically.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

No, but I believe some people want to vote in the House, as I was told earlier. Consequently, I'm going to allow them time to do so.

We have four witnesses. I don't know in what order they will be speaking.

Mr. Fleury, since you are at the top of my list, the floor is yours for the first five minutes.

[Mathieu Fleury, City Councillor, City of Ottawa]

Good evening, Mr. Chair, and members. Thank you for inviting me to assist the committee's work in reviewing the declaration of the Emergencies Act.

I've been a city councillor for the Rideau-Vanier ward since 2010. The western boundary of my ward runs along the Rideau Canal to the Chateau Laurier. Parliament and many other federal institutions, which were the focus of the protest, border the neighbourhoods of Sandy Hill, Lowertown, and Vanier, which were the areas hardest hit by the occupation.

I have a few minutes for my remarks and would like to devote that time to informing the committee about the impact the protests had on the residents and businesses in downtown Ottawa.

During the occupation, the impact on residents in my community was unbearable. It severely impacted their well-being, the livability of the ward, and their safety and forced many businesses to close during the occupation.

Upon its arrival, the “freedom convoy” occupation had devastating impacts on our residents and businesses. This was initially felt from the unbearable noise. The protesters used truck horns and train horns almost constantly day and night. Fireworks further added to the constant barrage of noise. The impact of the horns was traumatizing for residents living in my area and those living in the neighbouring ward of Somerset.

At the Public Order Emergency Commission, residents testified as to how the noise had a detrimental impact on their mental and emotional health. Severe sleep deprivation was common. These conditions made the downtown unlivable.

Some people are still traumatized by the experience even now. These concerns were reported to me at the time via hundreds of emails and telephone calls that I received from the businesses and residents affected. The constant engine noise of the trucks parked on our streets and the gases they emitted had an impact on them, and the way the trucks were parked created a chaotic environment that resembled a kind of fortress. In the circumstances, the trucks were being used as a weapon.

I walked the streets of my ward during the protests. I can tell you that the streets of downtown Ottawa were in complete chaos. I witnessed open fires in the streets, the delivery of tanks of fuel to protesters in close proximity to residents and businesses. At the intersection of Rideau and Sussex, right beside the Senate building, protesters set up DJ booths and barbeques. I also saw large trucks driving on residential streets and, in some instances, driving in the wrong direction. In the ByWard Market, which is also in my area, many pickup trucks parked everywhere and anywhere, including on sidewalks, without any consequences: there were no tickets, and no towing. Aside from occupying space in our city and on our walkways, these trucks served another purpose: they represented an assault on our communities through aggressive and intimidating behaviour by people participating in the occupation, which created an environment of chaos and lawlessness.

The chaos forced numerous businesses and institutions in the area to close. This included the Rideau Centre, the Rideau library branch, the University of Ottawa, the Andrew Fleck Child Care Centre, and many others.

The Rideau Centre has historically never had to close more than a day a year. The centre was closed for 24 consecutive days due to this occupation. This meant that 300 stores and more than 1,500 part-time employees were unable to generate income.

For the Rideau Centre, each day represented a loss of revenue of $2 million for the businesses. The closure of the Rideau Centre also compounded the effects on the surrounding Rideau Street and the ByWard Market. Small and independent businesses were severely impacted. Most businesses on Rideau Street and in the ByWard Market were force to close. Although lockdown restrictions were no longer in effect, most of these businesses could not stay open. Groups of protesters were demanding to dine indoors at local restaurants in violation of public health measures and orders. The businesses faced stark choices: close entirely, confront protesters and ask them to leave, or serve them in violation of public health regulations. Many opted to close out of fear.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. Fleury.

I forgot to mention this at the start of the meeting, but I have a yellow card in my hand that I raise to signal one minute remaining.

I now give the floor to Steve Kanellakos.

[Steve Kanellakos, City Manager, City of Ottawa]

Good evening. I thank the committee and its members for inviting me to assist in this important review of the use of the Emergencies Act.

Tonight, I plan to cover a little bit about my background and a few areas that have been the subject of interest, certainly from the public inquiry that I testified at on Monday.

By way of background, I currently serve as the city manager of the City of Ottawa. I've held that position since May 2016. Prior to becoming city manager, I served as director general of the Ottawa-Carleton Regional Police Service, which was the predecessor to the Ottawa Police Service. I left policing and joined the City of Ottawa in 2000 as the general manager of emergency and protective services. I then had various roles within the city before becoming the city manager.

I want to begin by providing the committee with a brief sense of my role and responsibilities as city manager.

The City of Ottawa has 10 departments. Each of those departments has a general manager who reports directly to me. The city manager is directed by city council through the various bylaws and resolutions which delegate the city manager with various powers and responsibilities. In turn, I delegate council's requests to the 10 general managers that support me. In this role, I have oversight over Mr. Kim Ayotte, who is the general manager of emergency protective services.

I want the committee to understand that the Ottawa Police Service was the lead agency for the response to the “freedom convoy”. It was in charge of making operational and tactical decisions in response to the convoy. Meanwhile, the city's role was to support the Ottawa Police Service as required and manage city services to minimize the impact of this protest on those services.

When the convoy arrived, the ticketing and towing of large trucks inside the control zone was not pursued by the city. The OPS, Ottawa police, was concerned that enforcing bylaws in the control zone could trigger violence. The city also could not independently decide to close some streets, because OPS was the lead agency and we were part of an integrated management system.

In addition to managing city operations during the protest, I also engaged in negotiations with the protesters at the request of Ottawa police.

On February 8, 2022, I received a call from Deputy Chief Bell of the Ottawa Police Service. He told me that members of the Ottawa Police Service police liaison team were coming to my office. He said that the PLT—the acronym for the police liaison team—wanted to discuss a potential meeting with some of the protesters. I attended the meeting and was told that OPS negotiations with the protesters had broken down.

I was advised that the protesters wanted to meet with a senior city official and asked whether I would attend such a meeting. I agreed to meet with the protesters, on the advice of and with the support of OPS senior command. The PLT suggested that I ask the protesters to remove trucks from some neighbourhoods in return for a meeting with the mayor. Later that day, I met with some of the protest leaders. I advised them that the mayor might consider meeting with the protest leaders if the protesters moved trucks out of the residential areas. Members of the PLT were present for part of that meeting. After the meeting, I briefed the mayor and his chief of staff on the general principles that were discussed in that meeting.

I had subsequent calls with OPS senior command, on February 11 with Chief Sloly, and on the 13th with Chief Sloly, Acting Deputy Chief Ferguson and Deputy Chief Bell, to update them on the status of the city's discussions on the protesters. Everyone agreed that getting protesters out of residential areas would be positive for residents and reduce the footprint of the protesters.

I attended another meeting with protesters and Mr. Ayotte on February 13 to discuss the logistics of moving trucks out of the neighbourhoods. Acting Superintendent Rob Drummond accompanied us. OPS senior command had assigned him to negotiate the details and conditions of the move.

Throughout the ensuing days, the mayor, through his chief of staff, and a third party facilitator, Mr. Dean French, entered into discussions with protesters to remove some trucks from the downtown core. Our efforts resulted in approximately 40 heavy trucks and an unknown number of light trucks and vehicles moving out of the residential areas.

At around the same time that we were successfully moving these trucks, the federal government invoked the Emergencies Act. To my knowledge, the city never requested the invocation of the act.

That said, and in closing, the “freedom convoy” had a significant impact on our city's services and its residents. It was the first time that protesters used heavy trucks to paralyze a city that I'm aware of. While the city did not ask the federal government to invoke the act, we were grateful when it finally did.

Mr. Chair, I welcome questions from the committee, and I thank you for inviting me here today.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. Kanellakos.

As we have 16 minutes left before the vote, I will now suspend the meeting.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a point of order.

We have a voting app exactly to facilitate voting. It takes 90 seconds. We can do that from this room.

Those people who want to vote in person can do so. We don't need them for quorum.

I propose that we continue this meeting.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I understand, Mr. Virani, but I've already ruled on that.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

It certainly doesn't take 15 minutes to walk upstairs, Monsieur Fortin.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Mr. Virani, I've already ruled on the matter, which Ms. Bendayan also raised just before you spoke.

I understand your request, but some members want to vote in person.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

That's terrific. It takes about two minutes to go upstairs, Monsieur Fortin.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I understand, but I have to allow them the time to do so.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I challenge your ruling. Let's vote on that ruling.