Declaration of Emergency Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2022

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We did not see those deployed here in Ottawa until the Emergencies Act was invoked. How is that, then?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

That is a situation of timing. The Emergencies Act was invoked prior to the operational plan being deployed.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Mr. Naqvi, your time is up. I'm sorry.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Madame Normandin, you have five minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you again, Commissioner Carrique.

I will go back to my earlier questions, but I would like to ask a few first.

To your knowledge, at the time the government made the decision to invoke the Emergencies Act, was it aware of the contents of the plan that had been established on February 13?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I'm not aware of the government's being familiar with the contents of the plan. Operational plans would not—should not—be shared with government. That's operational, and that certainly would never be shared with government.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

A few days ago, we learned that on February 13, Transport Canada had prepared a plan to allow trucks to be moved without the need to use the Emergencies Act.

Were you made aware of this plan?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I'm sorry. I'm not familiar with a plan that was prepared by Transport Canada. I'm not sure if there's some confusion about the assistance that the Ministry of Transportation provided in the province of Ontario. There was also an offer from the U.S. government, the State of Michigan, to provide tow services in relation to the Ambassador Bridge—approximately 100 tow trucks, which were not utilized. There may be some confusion there, or there may be a plan that was at work that I'm not aware of.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

The point is that you had not been made aware that a plan existed.

You mentioned that there were some potential pitfalls in the use of tow trucks. For example, the owners of the tow trucks were afraid of damage. They were perhaps afraid of being identified when the plan was implemented. They were afraid of not being reimbursed for the damage.

Wouldn't that have been the case anyway, whether the Emergencies Act was invoked or not?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I'm not sure that I completely understand the question, but I'll take my best run at it.

The Emergencies Act did help mitigate those concerns because we could provide indemnification to those service providers. With regard to those concerns that they had prior to the Emergencies Act being invoked, we were able to mitigate those concerns with the Emergencies Act.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

For example, in terms of damages suffered or the ability to identify the owners of the trucks, the Emergencies Act would not have changed anything. There could have been damage and the owners could have been identified anyway.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

That's correct, and there have been no reports of such retaliation, to my knowledge.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

You talked about the fact that the tow truck owners could have changed their minds.

Did you still have some leeway as to how many tow trucks you had requisitioned, given that some owners might have decided at the last minute not to co‑operate with you?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

We did have contingency plans in place. We were briefed that, with as little as two tow trucks and police officers who were qualified to operate the heavy tows, they could proceed with the removal of vehicles. However, it would have taken substantially more time to accomplish the same goal.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

On the other hand, as I understand it, this could have been done without the Emergencies Act.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

It could have been done, but not as efficiently and not as effectively.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

The Emergencies Act should only be invoked if necessary; do you believe this level of necessity had been met?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I'm sorry. Do you mean, did we meet the threshold?

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Was it necessary to use the Emergencies Act to execute your plan?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

It wasn't necessary for us to have the Emergencies Act to move forward.

Whether the government met the threshold to invoke the Emergencies Act is not something that I've assessed, nor am I qualified to have an opinion on it.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

All right. In your opinion, this was not necessary for the execution of your plan.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

It was not necessary.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Were other legal means considered by the Ontario Provincial Police to commandeer tow trucks? For example, was going to court to obtain injunctions for this purpose part of your plans?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

We were actually partway through a request to the province for indemnification through a procurement process that we can rely upon in an emergency. That was in process. We were able to discontinue that pursuit and leverage the Emergencies Act, which was much more efficient for us.