Declaration of Emergency Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2022

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Ms. Bendayan, your time is up.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

And you were not there.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

We were there. Check the facts.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

We have Madame Normandin for three minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Commissioner Carrique, what was the quality of communication between the OPP and the government, generally speaking? On a satisfaction scale, was it very good, good, average, poor or very poor, for example?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

We had no direct communication with the federal government, save and except we did make available Inspector Beaudin, who leads our provincial liaison team, to provide some consultation to federal Deputy Minister Rob Stewart.

I do report to the Ministry of the Solicitor General at a provincial level. I have complete administrative and operational autonomy; however, I do have an obligation to provide situational awareness to the Deputy Solicitor General, which I did throughout the proceedings of the convoy.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

Earlier, you told me that the government was not aware of the plan you had put in place on February 13. Is that correct?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I am not aware of government having any intimate knowledge of the plan on February 13. Certainly, no entities of government were provided with copies of that plan from the Ontario Provincial Police.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

You mentioned that one of the things that the Emergencies Act did was to facilitate the use of tow trucks. The government could not have known what effect the invocation of the act would have on your plan, as they were probably not aware of it.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I'm not certain what other consultations they undertook. I suspect they would certainly have been aware of the magnitude of the number of trucks that had to be towed, and there was a lot of public commentary around the challenges that that was posing for police. It would be unfair for me to speculate what they knew and what they didn't know.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Did the government ever ask you how the act could help you and whether it was necessary?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

Not me specifically, no.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

All right.

Do you have any reason to believe that the government could have known what beneficial effect the act might have on any operation?

In general, are governments aware of the planning of operations?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

Depending on what consultation was undertaken, and given the tools that were provided, I have to be of the belief that they were provided with some good guidance as it relates to tools that would be effective from a policing standpoint. Those tools that were provided I do deem as effective tools for law enforcement.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

As I understand it, in the cases where consultations took place, you were not involved.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

Not with me personally, no, but I can't speak to other consultations that may or may not have taken place.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Commissioner Carrique.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Thank you very much.

We have Mr. Green for three minutes.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Did you have any concerns about the sophistication of the supply chain, as well as the infiltration of the movement by people who were high ranking in Joint Task Force Two, the Prime Minister's security detail, and other military and former police services?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

In general terms, yes, I did have a concern over reports of currently serving and/or resigned or retired military and police personnel who were embedded in the convoy.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Is it safe to say that type of knowledge, intimate knowledge of police operations and tactics, would have provided a scenario in which this particular occupation and movement was perhaps sometimes ahead of the game in terms of knowing what to expect next? I referenced the ways in which they used jerry cans and used the baseball stadium as part of a logistics supply chain.

Have you, in your experience, ever seen anything that sophisticated before?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I have never seen anything that has appeared to be that sophisticated.

Just to be clear, there's no evidence of this, but I have a hard time accepting that it is merely a coincidence or circumstance that police got stretched between the two furthest points, from Ottawa to the southern part of Ontario, Windsor. I don't think that was by happenstance or circumstance.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

It was strategic to stretch your services and to pull you in a bunch of different directions.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I have no evidence of that, but strategically—

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Yes, it makes sense.

In a police report and an intelligence assessment prepared by the Ottawa police, there was a section about persons of interest that I drew attention to, because there's been a lot of consternation about the difference between charges for weapons and the presence, or potential presence, of weapons. Let's talk a little bit about where, in my opinion, the police did well. That was in terms of the persons of interest who they were concerned had access to firearms, some of whom made comments in open sources that they intended to bring firearms. In at least two cases, persons outside of Ottawa—and it said often outside of Ontario—were met by police, who seized firearms in the interest of public safety.

When police services seize firearms in the interest of public safety, briefly, are charges laid?