Declaration of Emergency Committee on Nov. 17th, 2022

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome, everyone, to meeting number 18 of the Special Joint Committee on the Declaration of Emergency, created pursuant to the order of the House of March 2, 2022, and the Senate of March 3, 2022.

Today's meeting will take place in a hybrid format, pursuant to House and Senate orders. Should any technical difficulties arise, please advise me, as we may need to suspend for a few minutes to ensure that all members are able to participate fully. Witnesses should also be aware that interpretation is available through the globe icon at the bottom of their screen.

Before I introduce the guests, I will note that within the last 10 or 15 minutes or so, the committee did receive notice that GiveSendGo has pulled out of tonight's meeting, so there will be a bit of rescheduling of time slots. We might have some extended time that might give some grace for the Senate votes.

I did want folks to know that as we go into this round of questioning.

We are very fortunate, however, to have GoFundMe here. Ms. Kim Wilford is the general counsel.

Ms. Wilford, you have five minutes for your opening remarks—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Before we get started, Mr. Chair, can you tell me whether the sound checks for this evening's witnesses were done and whether the results were satisfactory? I want to be sure the interpreters are equipped to do their job.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fortin. I understand that there may have been some issues in the past.

Looking beyond you to the interpretation, has the sound check been completed? Is it satisfactory?

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Usually, the clerk takes care of the sound checks.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Yes. We have the green light.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Go ahead, Ms. Bendayan.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chair, just as a point of clarification, could we hear from the clerk on the reasons for the cancellation at the very last moment of GiveSendGo?

[The Joint Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Josée Harrison]

They did not provide clarification on why they cannot appear. It was just stated that they could not appear.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Needless to say, I think I share the disappointment of members of this committee who were looking forward to that critical round of questioning. We will adapt and allow Ms. Wilford—

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'm concerned that they may never appear. Perhaps rescheduling is not in the cards for this particular witness. That would be very unfortunate, as it's an important witness that clearly appears afraid to come before this committee.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Ms. Bendayan, I am open to any motions that you may seek to have. We obviously have the power as a parliamentary committee to send for people in all sorts of ways. If I'm hearing from you that it is your will to do that, certainly the floor is yours. I'm open to that.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you very much. I think I will put forward a motion. If I may, given that we have a witness before us, I will leave time for the witness, and as soon as I see a free moment during the committee, I will move such a motion.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

That is duly noted, Ms. Bendayan.

Thank you very much, Ms. Wilford, for allowing us to work through the little adjustments here. You will have five minutes, following which you will have rounds of questioning.

I would like to state as a bit of preamble that you may find from time to time that parliamentarians may intervene to take back their time, which means they may interrupt you and cut you off. It's not out of disrespect. It's just that we have a very limited and set amount of time, and often parliamentarians will need to get to their next question. Please know that it's not a personal thing.

You have five minutes. The floor is yours.

[Kim Wilford, General Counsel, GoFundMe]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, Chair and members of the committee. It is our pleasure to join with honourable senators and members of Parliament today to discuss these important issues.

My name is Kim Wilford, and I'm the general counsel of GoFundMe.

At the outset, I would like to thank the committee for its important work to review the exercise of powers pursuant to the public order emergency declared under the Emergencies Act.

As a global brand that complies with laws and regulations in all jurisdictions where we operate, GoFundMe takes no position on the propriety of the Canadian government’s use of the Emergencies Act; however, we are happy to discuss the events of this past January and February and the actions that we took as a company.

GoFundMe is the world’s most recognized and most trusted fundraising platform. Our mission is to help people help each other, with a goal of being the most helpful place in the world. We are humbled that GoFundMe has become a noun synonymous with receiving help and assisting communities. That impact is far-reaching, as we have delivered over $17 billion in assistance to communities in 19 countries since the company began over a decade ago.

In Canada, we are now delivering around $200 million in community assistance each year, including funds raised for significant events such as the Humboldt Broncos fundraiser in 2018, the floods in British Columbia this time last year and, most recently, hurricane Fiona.

GoFundMe aspires to be the benchmark for responsible operations in the social fundraising space, and many of our employees are dedicated to trust, safety, platform integrity and compliance. Our decisions and policies are guided by our terms of service, which are posted publicly and outline what is permissible on our platform. Fundraising campaigns relating to misinformation, hate, violence and intolerance of any kind are not permitted under our terms.

Before we provide a timeline of events for the “freedom convoy” fundraiser, I would like to thank the City of Ottawa authorities for their partnership and collaboration. As the only level of government to interact directly with GoFundMe during this situation, the partnership was essential to understanding what was happening on the ground so that we could make the best possible decisions relative to our policies.

The “freedom convoy” fundraiser was created on January 14. We began to actively monitor it the next day, based on donation velocity. Our initial analysis concluded that it was within our terms of service. On January 27, we initiated, through our payment processing partner, a single distribution of $1 million Canadian to the financial institution of the “freedom convoy” fundraiser organizer.

Following this disbursement, public statements from the fundraiser organizer began to shift in tone and, on February 2, we suspended the fundraiser. This effectively meant that all future donations and withdrawals were paused.

From February 2 through 4, we heard from local authorities, namely the City of Ottawa and Ottawa police, that what had begun as a peaceful movement had shifted into something else, with reports of violence and threats. We commenced a review of where donations were coming from, and our records show that 88% of the donated funds originated in Canada and that 86% of donors were from Canada.

On February 4, following dialogue with the fundraiser organizer and her team as well as continued updates of concerning incidents from local authorities, it became clear that the fundraiser no longer complied with our terms of service. We removed the fundraiser from our platform and provided donors with the option to request a refund or have their donations delivered to credible and established charities chosen by the fundraiser organizer and verified by GoFundMe.

As of February 5, refunds were initiated via our payment processing partner, including all transaction processing fees and tips, and funds were returned to donors.

GoFundMe does not directly interact with or hold any funds, nor are we able to redirect those funds to ourselves or anyone else. All donations are processed, held and paid out by our payment processing partners. It's important to note that there are multiple layers in the regulatory framework surrounding social fundraising on GoFundMe. Our trust, safety, platform integrity and compliance teams work to ensure that we provide the most safe and secure environment for our users. That's the first layer. The second layer comes from the similar functions implemented by our payment processors. Third, our processors are bound by and rely on banks, card networks and their associated regulatory requirements. Lastly, crowdfunding platforms in Canada must now register with FINTRAC, which we did as soon as the requirement was enacted.

In closing, GoFundMe believes that responsible action is core to social fundraising. That's why we proactively invest in the tools, teams and processes to earn the trust of our users and the regulators.

We hope that this provides useful context to your ongoing review, and I'm happy to answer any questions that the committee has.

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you very much for your opening remarks.

We will begin our five-minute rounds with Mr. Brock.

Mr. Brock, you have five minutes. The floor is yours.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, Ms. Wilford. Thank you so much for agreeing to attend and for sharing your knowledge with respect to your company's involvement in this particular matter.

I know that you touched upon it briefly in your summary, but I want to put to rest a lingering thought that really has been percolating, and is still percolating almost to this day, around this particular protest. It basically had its origins pretty much the day the convoy arrived. It was this whole concept that this was a foreign-influenced movement. It was that foreign monies, predominantly, were flowing into this country to subvert our democracy. I know that you touched upon a statistic that clearly puts that to rest, but I want to put things in more perspective for you before I ask you the question.

This is a campaign that really started, right from the get-go, right from the Prime Minister, numerous cabinet ministers and a number of governing members of Parliament. When you attended the finance committee, one Liberal MP even suggested that there was a Russia connection. In fact, the comment was for you or Mr. Benitez—I don't know whom the question was put to. It was, “We know that Russia has been engaged in misinformation warfare for years...$1 trillion in Russian dark money that is circulating and dedicated to undermining our democracy.”

That was followed up by a question put to you by a Conservative member which basically said there was a little bit of irresponsibility in speculating about a Russian government connection. He asked you, “Did you uncover any connection between the illegal protests...and the Russian government?”

Mr. Benitez, the president of your company, responded, “12% of the donations came from outside of Canada. There was virtually only perhaps a handful, at most, of donations from Russia.”

Do you accept that as well, Madam?

[Kim Wilford]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

Yes, I do.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

That was again followed up.

The reason I'm getting to this is that you agree with me. In fact, one of your statements in one of the articles I read was that very early on in your involvement in this protest, there was a great deal of misinformation and you were trying to sort out between fact and fiction.

Unfortunately, our national broadcasting corporation, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, known as the CBC, which is entirely publicly funded—

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Excuse me. My apologies, Mr. Brock. I've stopped your time.

I should note, as has been set as a precedent within this committee, that a vote has been called in the Senate. I want to pause the meeting.

I do apologize, Ms. Wilford. It's an occupational hazard of being here on the Hill. Particularly at this time toward the end of the year, there are lots of votes.

I will recognize Senator Harder for any direction he may wish to provide.

[Peter Harder, Senator, Ontario, PSG]

Thank you, Chair.

The Senate has a 30-minute bell. I propose to leave to vote.

For my part, I would not be opposed to the committee continuing the questioning. Perhaps the committee could accommodate the senators, who may be back, for their questions. Let's take advantage of the time. We'll be back as quickly as possible.

If you need a formal motion, I'm happy to so move.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

If you wouldn't mind moving that, then we'll just go ahead with that motion on the floor.

I look around the table. Is anybody opposed to that motion?

(Motion agreed to)

We will continue with the questioning.

Senator Harder, I would like to note that, as a chair, I'll ensure that all members of the Senate who return from the vote have priority in their questioning, regardless of where the round is.

Thank you.

My apologies, Mr. Brock. Feel free to begin your question from where you were. You have about two minutes left, but I'll be generous.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

As I was indicating, Ms. Wilford, our national broadcast organization, the CBC, in a January 28 broadcast of Power & Politics, while interviewing Public Safety Minister Mendicino very early on in the protest, accused the Kremlin of funding the convoy. It was a claim that the CBC had to walk back days later.

She said, “I do ask that because, you know, given Canada's support of Ukraine in this current crisis with Russia, I don't know if it's far-fetched to ask, but there is concern that Russian actors could be continuing to fuel things as this protest grows, but perhaps even instigating it from the outset.”

Do you disagree with that as well, Ms. Wilford?

[Kim Wilford]

As I have said, our records show that 88% of the donated funds originated in Canada, and 86% of the donors were from Canada.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

To put a fine point on that, you had approximately 133,000 donors. Is that correct?